Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

monogame.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

251–260 of 266 posts

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#251

Post by nothrabannosir »

throw10920 wrote: post #238
nothrabannosir wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license only says what you MUST and MUST NOT do. The comment you’re replying to talked about what they SHOULD do. These are different concepts and they are codified differently by humans: the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now.

> the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now. No, he's not, because there's no social contract on the internet. Making these analogies between real-world communities and "the Internet" is an obviously stupid thing to do if you think about it for five seconds. And not only is there no social contract on the Internet, but because of its nature there cannot be, and attempting…

What is going on with the total lack of decorum in HN comments lately? Is this a new phenomenon or am I just now waking up to how incredibly rude some people here act towards strangers?

Is this a meta comment to demonstrate your belief that basic human mores don’t apply on the internet? Quite frankly I find it more of a refutation.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#252

Post by Steve6 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #205
Steve6 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Libertarians don't claim that they have "the solution to the world's ills". Just that the government is causing worse problems than it solves, and generally those problems can be handled by a free market. We're already being taxed like crazy while that money subsidizes things almost everyone disagrees with. The libertarians believe that if people weren't taxed as much they could voluntarily spend money on things that…

Historically, donations to charities drop when tax rates go down. As a percentage of income, donations were highest when tax rates were highest. The best example that low tax rates don't increase giving: in 2017 the TCJA reduced tax rates for most people, and increased the standard deduction (but reduced the charitable deduction). Even though they were being taxed less and had more money to donate, Americans donated…

I want you to know I took some time research and educate myself on these claims.

From my findings, I could not find anything directly correlating the 2017 TCJA to total donations. The TCJA did change how deductions are treated, and more people opted to go with standard deductions instead of itemized deductions, but this is not the same as total donations. It is possible this incentivized people to donate less because they couldn't get as much of a tax write off.

For total donations, it has continued to trend upward despite some fluctuations, and a $20 billion swing is not a large deviation. The numbers I saw were $400+ billion during that time. Again, this has many more factors than the TCJA.

Most importantly, I'd like to reiterate that libertarians do not claim that cutting government will "solve" problems like open source projects getting enough funding. Just that it will give the free market an opportunity to find a balance. No big bill is going to solve these problems either, it will only make it worse. The end does not justify the mean. Stop taking people's money, and let them spend it on the things they find valuable even if you disagree with it.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#253

Post by throw10920 »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #251
throw10920 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now. No, he's not, because there's no social contract on the internet. Making these analogies between real-world communities and "the Internet" is an obviously stupid thing to do if you think about it for five seconds. And not only is there no social contract on the Internet, but because of its nature there cannot be, and attempting…

What is going on with the total lack of decorum in HN comments lately? Is this a new phenomenon or am I just now waking up to how incredibly rude some people here act towards strangers? Is this a meta comment to demonstrate your belief that basic human mores don’t apply on the internet? Quite frankly I find it more of a refutation.

Your response that contains only ad-hominem character attacks and fails to address even the weakest of my statements conclusively proves that your points are indefensible.

Neither is my comment particularly offensive. You seem to have trouble differentiating between refuting someone's points and attacking their character.

Maybe that's why you attacked me, because you wanted to argue with my points but can't tell the difference between the two?

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#254

Post by nothrabannosir »

throw10920 wrote: post #253
nothrabannosir wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is going on with the total lack of decorum in HN comments lately? Is this a new phenomenon or am I just now waking up to how incredibly rude some people here act towards strangers? Is this a meta comment to demonstrate your belief that basic human mores don’t apply on the internet? Quite frankly I find it more of a refutation.

Your response that contains only ad-hominem character attacks and fails to address even the weakest of my statements conclusively proves that your points are indefensible. Neither is my comment particularly offensive. You seem to have trouble differentiating between refuting someone's points and attacking their character. Maybe that's why you attacked me, because you wanted to argue with my points but can't tell the…

I didn't address them because I don't want to :)

You're a fascinating character. If you're ever in New York let me know because I would love to see how you are in real life. I'm actually quite sure we'll get along after a bit of alignment! Weirder things have happened.

Stay blessed, my friend.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#255

Post by throw10920 »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #254
throw10920 wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response that contains only ad-hominem character attacks and fails to address even the weakest of my statements conclusively proves that your points are indefensible. Neither is my comment particularly offensive. You seem to have trouble differentiating between refuting someone's points and attacking their character. Maybe that's why you attacked me, because you wanted to argue with my points but can't tell the…

I didn't address them because I don't want to :) You're a fascinating character. If you're ever in New York let me know because I would love to see how you are in real life. I'm actually quite sure we'll get along after a bit of alignment! Weirder things have happened. Stay blessed, my friend.

> I didn't address them because I don't want to :)

Ahhh, yes, of course. Because the first thing that someone with a good response does is to never use it (especially if it's a cause they feel strongly about) and instead attack the character of the one who poked holes in their initial argument. Silly me.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#256

Post by madeofpalk »

mjg2 wrote: post #199
squigz wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. What exactly makes his charity genuine vs Epic's charity "disingenuous"?

Ostensibly what u/skibidithink replied. We should have a healthy distrust of international corporations giving for unapparent reasons beyond being in the same sector. We can gesture about how a gift has no obligations, but no one gets into business to not make money, and true charity is without obligation. ConcernedApe donated to give back to the foundation he came from, while Epic is out for global domination in the…

They’re both making self-serving donations. There’s nothing wrong with that.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#257

Post by tracker1 »

mostlysimilar wrote: post #157
tracker1 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30% off the top for most stores (Valve/Steam, Apple/iPhone, Google/Android, etc), then around 50% taxes between state, local... some fixed expenses and overhead. It's probably well under 20% in the bank after all is said and done. That said, it's still a lot of money.

> around 50% taxes between state, local. Truly? I believe he lives in Washington State. It's really HALF of his income?

When you're talking millions in income it can be that high depending on your state... IIRC, as peer comment mentions, Washington doesn't have state taxes, you still have a nominal rate for Federal at 38% though, and I'm not sure about sales, property or other taxes, which again, likely approach or exceed 50% against total income.

Just checked, seems it's now 37% for the top federal bracket... for what it's worth, I think it's amoral to tax more than half of what someone makes, regardless of how much they make.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#258

Post by sneak »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #232
sneak wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifts do not confer obligation. Copying deprives the original party of nothing. Absolutely nothing about free software requires or even implies any responsibility to “give back”. This idea that anyone making money with free software somehow owes the original authors anything (or “should” donate a portion of their profits) is ridiculous. If the authors wanted money for their software, they would have sold it instead o…

A lot of people arguing the philosophy here, but I'm willing to bet that sneak simply had very strong negative experiences around gift giving growing up. For a lot of people, a gift is not a gift but an invitation to abuse, and it's hard to be rational or pro-social about it when you were on the receiving end of that as a child.

Thanks for the completely off base psychoanalysis. You’re wrong.

I am simply tired of people pretending that using free software means that the author is owed a damn thing, even if you go and make a billion dollars with it. It doesn’t affect them one way or another what you do with something that they willingly chose to make no longer theirs. After releasing something as f/oss it shouldn’t even be called “yours” because you wrote it. After you choose to release it as free and open source, it is everyone’s software; it is no longer yours and the fact that you wrote it is now irrelevant.

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#259

Post by sneak »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #251
throw10920 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the former in licenses, the latter socially. You’re experiencing that process right now. No, he's not, because there's no social contract on the internet. Making these analogies between real-world communities and "the Internet" is an obviously stupid thing to do if you think about it for five seconds. And not only is there no social contract on the Internet, but because of its nature there cannot be, and attempting…

What is going on with the total lack of decorum in HN comments lately? Is this a new phenomenon or am I just now waking up to how incredibly rude some people here act towards strangers? Is this a meta comment to demonstrate your belief that basic human mores don’t apply on the internet? Quite frankly I find it more of a refutation.

Where is the lack of decorum in the comment to which you are replying?

Re: Stardew Valley developer made a $125k donation to the FOSS C# framework MonoGame

#260

Post by sneak »

bevr1337 wrote: post #120
sneak wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gifts do not confer obligation. Copying deprives the original party of nothing. Absolutely nothing about free software requires or even implies any responsibility to “give back”. This idea that anyone making money with free software somehow owes the original authors anything (or “should” donate a portion of their profits) is ridiculous. If the authors wanted money for their software, they would have sold it instead o…

> Gifts do not confer obligation. Remind me, which Ferengi Rule of Acquisition is this? There's not much argument to be had. You've created a logical justification for a myopic, misanthropic world view. > My friend bought me lunch. I used that energy at my job. Do I owe them part of my paycheck? Many find reciprocation important in a relationship.

The third rule of acquisition, quite obviously. But you seem to be forgetting the sixteenth.

More importantly: you are forgetting the meaning of “acquisition”. The instant the author released the software as free software, it was no longer “theirs”. It became everyone’s. The authorship is from that instant irrelevant.

It was “acquired” by the user in a moral sense at the time it was licensed by the original author (for a payment of $0, chosen by the author), not at the time the licensee began using it to make millions.

The original author chose the moral obligation placed upon the recipients of this gift, and they EXPLICITLY chose zero when they picked the license. To donate money to them later is to contravene their expressed wishes.

You can pretend that “they didn’t really mean that” but they are free to commit any text whatsoever they choose in ./LICENSE, and they chose one that declares THEIR OWN PERSONAL OPINION of the payments morally obligated by use of the software to be zero.

Post reply on HN