Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's an older tradition of rule-based machine translation. In these methods, someone really does understand exactly what the program does, in a detailed way; it's designed like other programs, according to someone's explicit understanding. There's still active research in this field; I have a friend who's very deep into it. The trouble is that statistical MT (the things that became neural net MT) started achieving…
This is the bitter lesson.[1] I too used to think that rule-based AI would be better than statistical, Markov chain parrots, but here we are. Though I still think/hope that some hybrid system of rule-based logic + LLMs will end up being the winner eventually. ---------------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitter_lesson
No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
251–260 of 344 posts
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true though. While we know what they do on a mechanistic level, we cannot reliably analyze why the model outputs any particular answer in functional terms without a heroic effort at the "arxiv paper" level.
that’s true of analyzing individual atoms in a combustion engine — yet I doubt you’d claim we don’t know how they work also this went from “we can’t analyze” to “we can’t analyze reliably [without a lot of effort]” quite quickly
Llms not being able to go from output back to input deterministically and for us to understand why is very important, most of our issues with llms stem from this issue. Its why mechanistic interpretabilty research is so hot right now.
The car analogy is not good because models are digital components and a car is a real world thing. They are not comparable.
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aside: Does anyone actually use summarization features? I've never once been tempted to "summarize" because when I read something I either want to read the entire thing, or look for something specific. Things I want summarized, like academic papers, already have an abstract or a synopsis.
Yeah, basically every 15 minute YouTube video, because the amount of actual content I care about is usually 1-2 sentences, and usually ends up being the first sentence of an LLM summary of the transcript. If something has actual substance I'll watch the whole thing, but that's maybe 10% of videos I find in experience.
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, several times a day. I use summarization for webpages, messages, documents and YouTube videos. It’s super handy. I mainly use a custom prompt using ChatGPT via the Raycast app and the Raycast browser extension. That said, I don’t feel comfortable with the level of AI being shoved into browsers by their vendors.
Aren't you worried it will fuck up your comprehension skills? Reading or listening.
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not a technical problem though is it? I don't see legal scenarios where unverified machine translation is acceptable - you need to get a certified translator to sign off on any translations and I also don't see how changing that would be a good thing.
I think the point here is that, while such a translation wouldn't be admissible in court, many of us already used machine translation to read some legal agreement in a language we don't know.
Have we? Most of us? Really? When?
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aside: Does anyone actually use summarization features? I've never once been tempted to "summarize" because when I read something I either want to read the entire thing, or look for something specific. Things I want summarized, like academic papers, already have an abstract or a synopsis.
In-browser ones? No. With external LLMS? Often. It depends on the purpose of the text. If the purpose is to read someone's _writing_, then I'm going to read it, for the sheer joy of consuming the language. Nothing will take that from me. If the purpose is to get some critical piece of information I need quickly, then no, I'd rather ask an AI questions about a long document than read the entire thing. Documentation, l…
And what do you do if the LLM hallucinates? For me, skim-reading still comes out on top because my own mistakes are my own.
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
that’s true of analyzing individual atoms in a combustion engine — yet I doubt you’d claim we don’t know how they work also this went from “we can’t analyze” to “we can’t analyze reliably [without a lot of effort]” quite quickly
In the digital world, we should be able to go back from output to input unless the intention of the function is to "not do that". Like hashing. Llms not being able to go from output back to input deterministically and for us to understand why is very important, most of our issues with llms stem from this issue. Its why mechanistic interpretabilty research is so hot right now. The car analogy is not good because model…
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aside: Does anyone actually use summarization features? I've never once been tempted to "summarize" because when I read something I either want to read the entire thing, or look for something specific. Things I want summarized, like academic papers, already have an abstract or a synopsis.
No, because an LLM cannot summarise. It can only shorten which is not the same . Citation: https://ea.rna.nl/2024/05/27/when-chatgpt-summarises-it-actu...
> I just realised the situation is even worse. If I have 35 sentences of circumstance leading up to a single sentence of conclusion, the LLM mechanism will — simply because of how the attention mechanism works with the volume of those 35 — find the ’35’ less relevant sentences more important than the single key one. So, in a case like that it will actively suppress the key sentence.
> I first tried to let ChatGPT one of my key posts (the one about the role convictions play in humans with an addendum about human ‘wetware’). ChatGPT made a total mess of it. What it said had little to do with the original post, and where it did, it said the opposite of what the post said.
> For fun, I asked Gemini as well. Gemini didn’t make a mistake and actually produced something that is a very short summary of the post, but it is extremely short so it leaves most out. So, I asked Gemini to expand a little, but as soon as I did that, it fabricated something that is not in the original article (quite the opposite), i.e.: “It discusses the importance of advisors having strong convictions and being able to communicate them clearly.” Nope. Not there.
Why, after reading something like this, should I think of this technology as useful for this task? It seems like the exact opposite. And this is what I see with most LLM reviews. The author will mention spending hours trying to get the LLM to do a thing, or "it made xyz, but it was so buggy that I found it difficult to edit it after, and contained lots of redundant parts", or "it incorrectly did xyz". And every time I read stuff like that I think — wow, if a junior dev did that the number of times the AI did, they'd be fired on the spot.
See also, something like https://boston.conman.org/2025/12/02.1 where (IIRC) the author comes away with a semi-positive conclusion, but if you look at the list near the end, most of these things are something that any person would get fired for, and are things that are not positive for industrial software engineering and design. LLMs appear to do a "lot", but still confabulates and repeats itself incessantly, making it worthless to depend on for practical purposes unless you want to spend hours chasing your own tail over something it hallucinated. I don't see why this isn't the case. I thought we were trying to reduce the error rate in professional software development, not increase it.
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is true though. While we know what they do on a mechanistic level, we cannot reliably analyze why the model outputs any particular answer in functional terms without a heroic effort at the "arxiv paper" level.
that’s true of analyzing individual atoms in a combustion engine — yet I doubt you’d claim we don’t know how they work also this went from “we can’t analyze” to “we can’t analyze reliably [without a lot of effort]” quite quickly
Re: No AI* Here – A Response to Mozilla's Next Chapter
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's like using your turn signal even when you know there's nobody around you. Politeness is a habit you don't want to break.
That's an interesting example to use. I only use turn signals when there are other cars around that would need the indication. I don't view a turn signal as politeness, its a safety tool to let others know what I'm about to. I do also find that only using a turn signal when others are around is a good reinforcement to always be aware of my surroundings. I feel like a jerk when I don't use one and realize there was so…
Here is a hypothetical: A loved one is being hauled away in an ambulance and it is a bad scenario. And you're going to follow them. Your mind is busy with the stress, trying to keep things cool while under pressure. What hospital are they going to, again? Do you have a list of prescriptions? Are they going to make it to the hospital? You're under a mental load, here.
The last thing you need is to ask "did I use my turn signal" as you merge lanes. If you do it automatically, without exception, chances are good your mental muscle memory will kick in and just do it.
But if it isn't a learned innate behavior, you may forget to while driving and cause an accident. Simply because the habit isn't there.
It's similar for talking to bots, as well. How you treat an object, a thing seen as lesser, could become how a person treats people they view as lesser, such as wait staff, for example. If I am unerring polite to a machine with no feelings, I'm more likely to be just as polite to people in customer service jobs. Because it is innate:
Watch your thoughts, they become words; Watch your words, they become actions.