Sanctions are stupid. Its a sign that the country realizes it can't compete fairly anymore.
DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
251–260 of 331 posts
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#252[dead]
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Smuggling or buying from a smuggler is on the "banditry" side whether you think it's moral or not.
Hypothetical: I buy a product imported legally from the US and later sell it on the local used market to a Chinese tourist who takes it back to China with them. Where is the crime, smuggling, or 'banditry' here? US law is just that - US law.
If the importer didn't have the intent of it going to the tourist, then things are fine for that one-off GPU. If they did have that intent we quickly get to smuggling territory, with or without you as a middleman.
And for GPU trips without a country in between, the plausible deniability is close to zero.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The bans are export controls. They are not banned in china. They are just banned from export in the US. Using them in china is legal in china.
> Yes. The bans are export controls. These export controls increasingly look like "tax". The White House said the US government would take a 25 percent cut of the chip’s sales, similar to a deal with AMD and Nvidia earlier this year that allowed them to sell lower-powered AI chips to China while paying the US government 15 percent of the proceeds. > Using them in China is legal in China. Technically, yes. The CCP, th…
Add the Export Clause to the list of flagrant violations of the Constitution by this despicable regime.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#255I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…
training on data isn’t stealing the data, in the same way learning from a textbook doesn’t mean youre stealing from it
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
> less than legal means. This is an absurd concept when it comes to international trade. Even intellectual property is mostly meaningless outside a state. Of course people will evade sanctions; what is the us going to do, invade singapore or malaysia?
Just because something is hard to enforce doesn't mean it's absurd. Embargoes aren't impossible to enforce against the foreign importer. If a foreign entity is found to have placed orders with false documents, they can be sanctioned, which can be enforced against any of their international operations. It makes it hard for them to do future business in global markets. I would not recommend violating US sanctions no ma…
> Just because something is hard to enforce doesn't mean it's absurd.
Expecting to strangle world markets with intellectual property as your moat is absurd. You can only fight honest competition with dishonest means for so long, and intellectual property is one of the dirtiest tricks in the book.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#257Good. Unsurprising (well, known), but good. In fact, the world would be a better place if the US would not use their influence to try to keep other countries down.
"In fact, the world would be a better place if the US would not use their influence to try to keep other countries down." acting like china wouldn't doing the same thing to other country if they ever weld such position every great power would do the same thing to defend their position, its not unique to the US. only because current incumbent power is we see things this way
china's global status was obtained very differently from the US, its material interests and levers of influence are different
if china was in the same position as the us it would just be the us; obviously this is not inherent to nationality, but material conditions
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#258I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…
There’s no honor among thieves. You don’t get to cry about Chinese “bandits” when Anthropic just had to pay $1 billion to settle a massive copyright infringement lawsuit. All of these models were created through the mass-scale theft of humanity’s intellectual property, personal data, and dignity.
Open always beats closed. Drain the moats. Starve the ClosedAI beast.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#259I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…
i find it weird that this comment got so much pushback. i don't think it was portraying deepseek as any more morally wrong than anyone else, or castigating anyone as morally wrong.
but maybe i gave it a gracious reading.
Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says
#260I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…
> I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as training data All the labs permitting synthetic data do that.
pretty sure it is against ToS for ChatGPT, Claude and Gemini.