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It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

javascript.tm

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Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#251

Post by chpatrick »

friendzis wrote: post #196
giancarlostoro wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to sound crazy, but, if Microsoft would free up TypeScript and every browser added native TypeScript features to JavaScript… and then we all just started calling it TypeScript. Maybe? Then you would see native ts files. Oracle will never give up JS. The funny thing is the number of people who confuse Java and JS.

For years we said bring something sane to browsers instead of trying to salvage js. At this point, though, why don't they just implement DOM bindings in wasm and make internets a better place overnight?

TypeScript is a really decent language though, I wouldn't feel happier or more productive using Fortran or whatever. Its type system is actually really powerful which is what matters when it comes to avoiding bugs, and it's easy to write functional code with correct-by-construction data. If you need some super optimized code then sure that's what WASM is for but that's not the problem with most web apps, the usual problem is bad design, but then choice of language doesn't save you. Sure TS has some annoying legacy stuff from JS but every language has cruft, and with strict linting you can eliminate it.

It's also better if there's one ecosystem instead of one fragmented with different languages where you have to write bindings for everything you want to use.

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#253

Post by mikepurvis »

nunobrito wrote: post #221
xxs wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can't imagine writing anything of substance primarily in groovy. That's solely based on a poor imagination, not trying...

Have to agree with the previous person. Never saw a relevant project made from Groovy. Even with Beanshell I've included it a few times in other projects for basic scripting/customization within the app but groovy? Never in 15 years to now.

I think embedding and testing/plugins/DSLs really is the main use-case. It's a terrible fit for a CLI tool if you've got to wait for a JVM to boot up, especially in a world where people are now used to those kinds of things being instantaneous rust or go binaries.

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#254

Post by cies »

mcny wrote: post #29
cies wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle is in the business of bullying others using their big legal dept. We all know this. > Oracle has no business claiming javascript as a trademark. You think so. That's okay. But ultimately it is up to a judge to decide. Right? I agree with the EcmaScript. Just ditch the stupid name. Get all the petition signers to agree an move on. Fuck Oracle. Fuck JavaScript (it's nothing like Java anyway).

> But ultimately it is up to a judge to decide. Right? I think we are getting a rude awakening about what is legal versus what is actually right are not always the same thing. There are some the horrible, horrible things here and the laws need updating, as opposed to us simply saying this is for a judge to decide and there is nothing else we can do. I am ok with ditching the JavaScript name. I understand this cuts th…

Completely agree. But that's more of a general matter than this specific matter.

Judges is the best we have. US has juries, not sure if that makes it better.

More importantly we need to criminalize lobbying in order to get control back over "our democracies" (what ever that still means today).

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#255

Post by RiverCrochet »

amelius wrote: post #217
StableAlkyne wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less the fact that someone owns JS's trademark, and more that it's specifically Oracle (they got it when they bought Sun). Oracle is an incredibly litigious company. Their awful reputation in this respect means that the JS ecosystem can never be sure they won't swoop in and attempt to demand rent someday. This is made worse by the army of lawyers they employ; even if they're completely in the wrong, whatever pro…

At this point I'm going to assume that adding -Script to a trademarked name allows me to use that name freely.

Oracl3Script?

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#256

Post by mlok »

jtwaleson wrote: post #189
alberth wrote: post #177

Silly question: how are people negatively impacted by the trademark of "JavaScript"? Because in practice, isn't this a bit like "Kleenex" - where everyone knows you mean "tissue" (EMCAScript).

EMCA -> ECMA

True. And that's also a reason why "Javascript" is more human friendly tbh.

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#257

Post by DANmode »

dev0p wrote: post #208
alberth wrote: post #177

Silly question: how are people negatively impacted by the trademark of "JavaScript"? Because in practice, isn't this a bit like "Kleenex" - where everyone knows you mean "tissue" (EMCAScript).

The fact that you wrote it wrong is hilariously ironic. JavaScript is simply the better term, and marketing is everything. Reminds me of Java's POJOs, which was a very simple pattern that no one used, until someone gave them a fancy name. ECMAScript is a horrible technical name. Might as well call it ACMEScript considering how willie e. coyote it feels to develop with it...

ACME is actually better, because you can say or read it in under 5 business days.

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#258

Post by davidhaymond »

someguyiguess wrote: post #141
9rx wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's not up to Oracle. It is up to the US government (USPTO). Which you could make a strong case for also not being a democracy and rather a lawnmower... But I digress.

“I die,” grass

This made me smile way more than it should. Thanks.

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#259

Post by pennomi »

NooneAtAll3 wrote: post #206
wiseowise wrote: post #87

1) Put JS in maintenance mode, don’t add any language features, only runtime 2) TS becomes the official mainline, whoever doesn’t like types can just keep writing as they did before, because valid JS is valid TS Problem solved, it’s not that difficult.

3) remove js and its derivatives from the internet, switch to lua or smth

Should be easy, it’s not like there’s any legacy code out there written in JS.

Re: It’s time to free JavaScript (2024)

#260

Post by sjtgraham »

This is a very weak letter. Oracle is using the mark in commerce, and the 2019 specimen is presumed valid unless affirmatively disproven. The fact that Oracle doesn’t charge licensing fees for use of the name is irrelevant. Calling something JavaScript ‘JavaScript’ is nominative use, and any attempt by Oracle to enforce against such truthful descriptive use would fail under nominative fair use.
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