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Datacenters in space aren't going to work

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Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#251

Post by gaigalas »

You don't need massive datacenters in space.

You literally just need to be in space, because no typical laws apply if you are there. That little detail outweights all sorts of costs.

So, yeah. There will be datacenters in space. Probably unlike any on the ground. Smaller, very likely not running typical datacenter stuff, weirder, operating on a different set of regulations.

If we're lucky, it will be like Antarctica (research focused, still disputed but not armed, probably not lots of shady stuff happening there, costly but still pays off to be there).

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#252

Post by rsynnott »

eru wrote: post #248
rsynnott wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the point, it's beginning to feel a bit like the 419 scam (where you make the details deliberately absurd so as to ward off people inclined to be sceptical early, leaving you with only the easiest marks.) SMRs! Data centres in space! "phD level AIs".

You can short the publicly traded companies that do this.

The market can, as always, remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent, or certainly for longer than _I_ can.

Like, come on, you must understand what a stupid response this is? “There is a bubble” is not a sufficient thesis to, well, do much of anything on.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#253

Post by deno »

gaigalas wrote: post #251

You don't need massive datacenters in space. You literally just need to be in space, because no typical laws apply if you are there. That little detail outweights all sorts of costs. So, yeah. There will be datacenters in space. Probably unlike any on the ground. Smaller, very likely not running typical datacenter stuff, weirder, operating on a different set of regulations. If we're lucky, it will be like Antarctica…

This makes no sense. The company will still be on the ground in some country and it has to connect to the Earth internet on the ground in some country. Unless you are talking about actual space pirate station, but in that case it better come equipped with missile defense because it will be attacked sooo fast.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#254

Post by calcifer »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #227

There are lots of reasons why keeping data centers on the ground might be cheaper but the article seems to be skipping over a few things. 1) ISS is about 30 years old. It's hardly the state of the art in solar technology. Also, it's much easier to get light to solar panels far a larger part of the time. Permanently in some orbits. And of course there is 0% chance of clouds or other obstructions. 2) We'll have Starshi…

> In short, counter arguments to articles like this almost write themselves.

Yes, arguments that are facts-and-numbers-free are easy to write, but that applies to any topic, not just space data centers.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#255

Post by ACCount37 »

verzali wrote: post #231
ACCount37 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antisatellite weapons are expensive and rare, and also woefully inadequate for dealing with megaconstellations. If there's one large orbital datacenter, then sure, ASAT is a threat to it. But if it's a dispersed swarm like the Starlink system? Good luck making a dent in that. You'd run out of ASAT long before Musk runs out of Starlink.

You only need to destroy a few. Then you have a cloud of debris that will take down the rest or at the very least force them to use all their fuel making evasive manoeuvres.

Not really. Space is too large.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#256

Post by _heimdall »

mbesto wrote: post #120

Datacenters in space is about circumventing nation states masked as ambitions to generate more power. Follow the rationale: 1. Nation states ultimately control three key infrastructure pieces required to run data centers (a) land (protected by sovereign armed forces) (b) internet / internet infra (c) electricity. If crypto ever became a legitimate threat, nation states could simply seize any one of or all these three…

If a company were to go on its own and build data centers in space only to avoid nation state jurisdiction, they better be prepares to defend that hardware in space.

If a country doesn't like what is happening they can shoot it down, and with no humans onboard or nations claiming jurisdiction there really isn't much to stop them or to answer for.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#257

Post by james-bcn »

gaigalas wrote: post #251

You don't need massive datacenters in space. You literally just need to be in space, because no typical laws apply if you are there. That little detail outweights all sorts of costs. So, yeah. There will be datacenters in space. Probably unlike any on the ground. Smaller, very likely not running typical datacenter stuff, weirder, operating on a different set of regulations. If we're lucky, it will be like Antarctica…

>You literally just need to be in space, because no typical laws apply if you are there.

That makes no sense. Unless you are going to use the data in space (what for?), you need to import it into a country, and it is at that point the crime will have been committed. You can't, for example, circumvent GDPR laws just by sending the data into space first.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#258

Post by cladopa »

It is not a good idea listening to experts tell you what can't be done. Science and technology progresses one funeral at at time. Einstein's ideas were crazy for classical scientists and Heisenberg's for Einstein.

The most important thing is making space access ten to one hundred times cheaper with reusable rockets. Then a lot of the problems in the article will not be problems at all.

E.g ISS was designed and created when access to space was extremely expensive. Solar technology and batteries was extremely bad but also super expensive.

You can not use convention but radiation works incredibly well and you can also use the thermal technology of mobile devices.

The most important thing being cheap is that access to the Space become possible for way more people with creativity. Not just a few people with academic titles but people with practical engineering and scientific mastery (that certainly run circles around them on real projects).

There are so many opportunities to use creativity in space, with possibilities that do not exist on earth. For example you can spin or rotate things super fast and so you could have convention inside the machines that rotate.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#259

Post by smokel »

smokel wrote: post #33
yardie wrote: post #4

I asked Google for more information about AI datacenter in space. This was the first sentence, 'AI data centers are being developed in space to handle the massive energy demands of AI, using solar power and the vacuum of space for cooling.' > After laughing at "the vacuum of space for cooling" I closed the page because there was nothing serious there. Basic high school physics student would be laughing at that senten…

You could help by using the thumbs down button below the answer.

Interestingly, this comment gets a lot of downvotes.

If you don't want to help improve the world, then how are you expecting things to become better?

I understand that people don't like it that this will give Google an advantage. But what is the proper alternative? We have no non-profit organizations who could muster the money to build these systems. I suppose those who are critical of large companies would also be critical of governments building these systems.

So is what you (downvoters) propose here to just complain and do nothing about it? I'd be curious to hear what alternatives you propose.

Re: Datacenters in space aren't going to work

#260

Post by gaigalas »

deno wrote: post #253
gaigalas wrote: post #251

You don't need massive datacenters in space. You literally just need to be in space, because no typical laws apply if you are there. That little detail outweights all sorts of costs. So, yeah. There will be datacenters in space. Probably unlike any on the ground. Smaller, very likely not running typical datacenter stuff, weirder, operating on a different set of regulations. If we're lucky, it will be like Antarctica…

This makes no sense. The company will still be on the ground in some country and it has to connect to the Earth internet on the ground in some country. Unless you are talking about actual space pirate station, but in that case it better come equipped with missile defense because it will be attacked sooo fast.

> The company will still be on the ground in some country

But the data won't. That is literally how people launder money. They live in one country and keep their money in another with laxed laws and enforcement. Those people get away a lot.

> it has to connect to the Earth internet

Why? This is only true if the datacenter is directly serving people. As I mentioned previously, I don't believe space datacenters will be serving React apps or anything like that. Those will be weird, non-typical servers.

Want some zero internet use cases?

- Training a cyber-ops LLM without poking eyes and reduced risk of leaks.

- Illegal data-heavy research (bio, weaponry).

- Storing data for surveillance satellites.

All of those can use private links, can be built by private companies under classified contracts, and you would not dare attack an NRO-launched satellite.

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