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The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

arstechnica.com

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Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#251

Post by pjc50 »

grimblee wrote: post #221
pfannkuchen wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A positive effect from regulation does not rebut the general argument against government regulation of industry. The problem with regulation isn’t that there are never any positive effects, of course there are. The problem is it’s impossible to reliably avoid adding substantial friction to life via overly broad regulation that is not applicable but has to be followed anyway, or outdated but still-in-effect regulation…

I mean, housing and medical treatment are more expensive in the US because the market is unregulated and so the capital exploits the poor who can't do otherwise for those basic needs. You defeated your own argument ? Thanks !

There is definitely a third option of "badly regulated through regulatory capture that favors incumbents, prevents competition and makes things worse for the public, while protecting actual malfesance". The US has a lot of this. The EU version tends just to protect the incumbent too much.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#253

Post by systemtest »

scbzzzzz wrote: post #198
systemtest wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple used USB-C on the iPhone 15 and 16 without being forced to do so. If Apple was indeed forced to use USB-C they would have postponed it to the 17. Do you also think Apple was forced to use USB-C on the iPad and MacBook?

Wow , you need lot of homework to do. You missed the whole timeline of events, backlash with apple and usbc and just looking at headlines. Or either misrepresenting the facts because you are a fan boy of a trillion dollar company. Please dont if its latter.

Do you have any source that states that Apple was forced? Given that they switched the iPhone to USB-C multiple product iterations before it was required makes it seem to be that they were not forced.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#254

Post by systemtest »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #91
llm_nerd wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users all got to complain that the EU are the meanies responsible for their old wires and chargers and accessory no longer being compatible, but it seems infinitely more likely that Apple was going to adopt USB-C on largely the same schedule even if the EU didn't intercede. To be clear, Apple had already moved their laptops and computers to USB-C -- long in advance of almost any one else -- and had moved their iPad P…

> but it seems infinitely more likely that Apple was going to adopt USB-C on largely the same schedule even if the EU didn't intercede There is no reason to believe this at all given how hard Apple fought the EU on this.

Do you have any sources that "Apple fought the EU" regarding USB-C?

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#255

Post by LexGray »

pjc50 wrote: post #229
Longhanks wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "essential public infrastructure" If people wanted these devices and services to be public infrastructure, they should be developed and maintained using public funds.

Once something becomes so widely used that almost everyone has one, the public interest is involved. In the same way that cars are essential public infrastructure and have to comply with public safety standards, interoperable fuel nozzles, etc.

Public interest does not seem to be the driving factor.

Everyone owns kitchen appliances and even if there is network support it generally requires a specific app that is out of support very early in the device lifetime. Vehicles barely support operability with phones at all and there is no standard UI or phone side vehicle monitoring.

At least personally I would like enforced open device standards on home appliances and vehicles far before I care about something like AirDrop that has work arounds.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#256

Post by systemtest »

llm_nerd wrote: post #50
gambiting wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> which they were already almost completely done doing Honest question - why did they stick with lighting on iphones for so long, given that usb-c has been ubiquitus on phones for years before that point. I mean we can sit here and say "duh apple was going to do it anyway" but like.....why didn't they? Why did samsung have usb-c phones long before apple?

Apple's resistance was presumably user inertia. Users had billions of cables and accessories for lightning, and Apple saw during a prior transition that people get really pissed off about this sort of change. And let's be real about Samsung et al -- before USB-C, they were using the utter dogshit micro USB connector (funfact -- this terrible connector became prevalent because the EU made a voluntary commitment with m…

Don't forget the USB 3.0 micro-B on the Galaxy S2, the 18-pin connector, the 20-pin connector, mini-USB and various barrel connectors. USB-C was a blessing for Samsung, they could finally ditch their sub-par connectors.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#257

Post by senordevnyc »

echelon wrote: post #121
ralph84 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU mindset in a nutshell. It doesn’t matter how shitty and expensive the solution is, as long as they get to say they owned big tech.

Okay, so you're a hyper capitalist. Good, I dig that. Me too. Big tech is literally a machine putting a ceiling on your ability to build. They tax and control everything, lock down distribution, prevent you from operating without rules. If you get big enough, they self-fund an internal team to compete with you. Or they offer to buy you for less than you're worth. If you don't accept, they buy your competitor. Capital…

Do you like not being able to write apps and distribute them to customers? It's okay to pay their fee, jump through their hoops, be locked to release trains, pay 30%, forced to lose your customer relationship, forced to use their payment and user rails, forced to update on their whim to meet their new standards - on their cadence and not yours?

Most of this isn’t even true. It’s 15% for most app sellers, you don’t have to use their user auth, you can maintain a direct customer relationship just fine, you’re not locked onto a release train, you only have to update when things change if you want your app to work (like literally any platform).

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#258

Post by quitit »

madeofpalk wrote: post #27

People keep mentioning Wi-Fi Aware with this, but so far haven't seen anyone actually prove that this is the case. Apple undoubtedly added Wi-Fi Aware support to iOS https://developer.apple.com/documentation/WiFiAware , but its not clear whether iOS actually supports AirDrop over Wi-Fi Aware. Apple clearly hasn't completely dropped AWDL for AirDrop, because you can still AirDrop from iOS 26 to earlier devices. Note t…

If the EU forced Apple to adopt Wi-Fi Aware then Apple would just fence it to EU users.

The attempt of trying to paint this as a powerplay by the EU is tenuous:

- Apple, along with Microsoft and Intel are founding members of the Wi-Fi Alliance, whose objective was to introduce a standard of interoperability through Wi-Fi Aware.1

- This work commenced long before the EU showed any interest in regulating tech.

- Apple have a pretty solid history of fencing EU-mandated changes to EU devices.

- Microsoft's Windows, also deemed by the EU as a "gatekeeper" hasn't deployed Wi-Fi Aware in Windows. With no public plans to do so.2

1. https://www.washingtoninformer.com/wi-fi-aware-aims-to-conne...

2. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2284386/...

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#259

Post by isodev »

LexGray wrote: post #255
pjc50 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once something becomes so widely used that almost everyone has one, the public interest is involved. In the same way that cars are essential public infrastructure and have to comply with public safety standards, interoperable fuel nozzles, etc.

Public interest does not seem to be the driving factor. Everyone owns kitchen appliances and even if there is network support it generally requires a specific app that is out of support very early in the device lifetime. Vehicles barely support operability with phones at all and there is no standard UI or phone side vehicle monitoring. At least personally I would like enforced open device standards on home appliances…

It would be unfortunate if we have to fight this for every category of gizmos separately. It would be best if the next iteration of the consumer rights directive codifies this in general e.g. connected devices (even if the connection is just peer devices), anything that generates or stores user related information etc.

If tomorrow someone invents smart glasses that can trigger a home robot to do the laundry when I look at the pile of dirty clothes on the floor, the orchestration should be based on capabilities, not brand or ecosystem.

Re: The EU made Apple adopt new Wi-Fi standards, and now Android can support AirDrop

#260

Post by nickpp »

kelnos wrote: post #197
pfannkuchen wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A positive effect from regulation does not rebut the general argument against government regulation of industry. The problem with regulation isn’t that there are never any positive effects, of course there are. The problem is it’s impossible to reliably avoid adding substantial friction to life via overly broad regulation that is not applicable but has to be followed anyway, or outdated but still-in-effect regulation…

It's unclear exactly what you're arguing, but I think if you are arguing that, because of the unavoidable substantial friction caused by regulation, we shouldn't have any regulation of industry at all... I think it's trivial to find examples where banning all regulation of industry would make the world a much, much worse place. Much worse than the friction.

> It's unclear exactly what you're arguing

Actually, it's perfectly clear to me.

> we shouldn't have any regulation

Nope, he's not saying that at all. He's just saying that any regulation (no matter how necessary, well intended or even perfect it is) has a cost. And that cost is accumulating across all regulations.

Furthermore, that cost is easily supported by large incumbents (big fans of regulation, btw) but it hurts startups the most. Thus the more regulations a market has, the fewer startups will have. Fewer startups means less competition. Less competition means less innovation, fewer products and higher prices. We can easily see this effect unfolding in the housing, education or health markets.

Bottom line is: we must take those second order effects of regulation into consideration when talking about it.

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