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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#251

Post by tzs »

0x457 wrote: post #224
tzs wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No to all of that? Passport book (which you don't need unless you travel internationally) cost 165 USD per 10 years. This won't work for people who don't have a government issued photo ID because you need a government issued photo ID to get a passport. If you can get a passport then you've already got what you need to vote in the states with voter ID laws.

I'm aware. I'm saying getting a passport (or any state id...) in the US is not some epic battle against the system: it's a few bucks and reading comprehension to understand which documents to bring or someone to tell you what to bring. Not only that, but I went from having zero photo IDs that aren't expired as a foreigner in the US to Real ID really quick without even making a DMV appointment.

> I'm saying getting a passport (or any state id...) in the US is not some epic battle against the system

It is for many people. There are a bunch of relevant links in this comment [1].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42116609

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#252

Post by iAMkenough »

crazygringo wrote: post #248
contagiousflow wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you would be happy to have your digital identity be managed by Xiaomi, Yandex, or Eitaa?

I don't know what you mean by "managed by". But I'd be perfectly happy to use a phone made by any of them that let me upload my driver's license to a wallet they managed. I mean, why wouldn't I? What do I care whether China knows who I am...? I mean, I've already given them my passport when I visited anyways.

I'll manage it for you. Just send me an email with a photo copy of your identifying information and I'll add it to a digital wallet I'm working on for you. You've got nothing to worry about, right?

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#253

Post by mathgeek »

throwaway290 wrote: post #241
mathgeek wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have an example?

do YOU have an example? rights are the same for everyone is in probably every constitution and sorta default;)

An example from me wouldn’t disprove your claim that there are places with equal rights across the board. E.g. in the US it’s clear that the wealthy have rights granted via political donations. That doesn’t prove or disprove your claim. I hesitate to even mention such examples for fear of a response being more focused in it than the claim you made.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#254

Post by rootsudo »

crazygringo wrote: post #250
rootsudo wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not need an ID ti fly within the USA As for birth certificate, it is a document that shows you are a citizenship and does identify you and can be used. It’s common in other countries as a document to open back accounts so in many ways it can in the USA.

> You do not need an ID ti fly within the USA Unless you're trying to be unnecessarily pedantic, yes you do. There are exceptions like if you're a minor, if you're a passenger on a general aviation flight instead of a commercial one, etc. But if you're an adult and you want to hop on a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, you need government-issued photo ID, period. You're not getting through security otherwise.

No, you do not:

https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/trip-planning/us-tra...

"If you forget your ID, you may still be able to fly after some extra screening."

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/frequently-asked-questions/i-forg...

"I forgot my identification; can I still proceed through security screening? In the event you arrive at the airport without acceptable identification (whether lost, stolen, or otherwise), you may still be allowed to fly. By providing additional information, TSA has other ways to confirm your identity so you can reach your flight."

Every USA airline has this documentaiton, and TSA has this documentation on their website too.

>Unless you're trying to be unnecessarily pedantic, yes you do.

Edge cases should be accounted for IRL. People like you are the reason why the right to privacy is being eroded away constantly.

>But if you're an adult and you want to hop on a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, you need government-issued photo ID, period. You're not getting through security otherwise.

The evidence I presented above states you can. Whether or not it's seamless or comfortable isn't a discussion, nor should it be "pedantic" to know the rules presented by these organizations.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#255

Post by throwaway290 »

mathgeek wrote: post #253
throwaway290 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do YOU have an example? rights are the same for everyone is in probably every constitution and sorta default;)

An example from me wouldn’t disprove your claim that there are places with equal rights across the board. E.g. in the US it’s clear that the wealthy have rights granted via political donations. That doesn’t prove or disprove your claim. I hesitate to even mention such examples for fear of a response being more focused in it than the claim you made.

I am ok if you say "people with more money live better lives" but if you say "people with more money have more rights" is a bomb statement because "rights" means something specific and legally important.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#256

Post by crazygringo »

rootsudo wrote: post #254
crazygringo wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do not need an ID ti fly within the USA Unless you're trying to be unnecessarily pedantic, yes you do. There are exceptions like if you're a minor, if you're a passenger on a general aviation flight instead of a commercial one, etc. But if you're an adult and you want to hop on a commercial flight from JFK to LAX, you need government-issued photo ID, period. You're not getting through security otherwise.

No, you do not: https://www.united.com/en/us/fly/travel/trip-planning/us-tra... "If you forget your ID, you may still be able to fly after some extra screening." https://www.tsa.gov/travel/frequently-asked-questions/i-forg... "I forgot my identification; can I still proceed through security screening? In the event you arrive at the airport without acceptable identification (whether lost, stolen, or otherwise), you ma…

If you forget your ID, then the extra screening will attempt to find existence of the ID in databases. The ID still needs to have been issued in the first place. This is mainly if you lose your driver's license while traveling, it lets you get back home. It is in no way some kind of general-purpose mechanism for flying without ID. And it's a gigantic hassle that may take hours at the airport to sort out, leading you to miss your flight and wait to be rebooked.

You're absolutely being pedantic and argumentative, and I can't even begin to imagine why. I assume you know perfectly well that an ID is required to fly as the general rule. I can't imagine what you think you're trying to accomplish by arguing otherwise.

And if you really want to be pedantic, note that the word used is "may", not "shall":

> In the event you arrive at the airport without acceptable identification (whether lost, stolen, or otherwise), you may still be allowed to fly.

Because it's not a guarantee.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#257

Post by Klonoar »

0x457 wrote: post #233
Klonoar wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't slow down the line, they hold you at just about every crowded airport until the line for the luggage/body scanner are ready for the next person. Even if it did, though, I have the right to opt out, so you will wait until I've exercised my right. Deal with it. :) I reject it because I don't believe in a world where rampant facial recognition should be the norm.

When I was in Haneda airport, a machine tells you which of 4 lines to go to and if you have forgotten there is a screen with live camera feed from screen POV and little boxes drawn on top kinda above you with your line. I thought it was pretty neat, but felt super invasive. CBP facial recognition is far less invasive. It's not an instance of "rampant facial recognition" in my opinion. There is really no downside, "th…

You say these points as if they're not day-one considerations of this discussion.

If they know that already, then they don't need to use facial recognition. It acts as a de-facto endorsement of the idea that it should be used everywhere else in society, which is what my issue is.

I also lived in Japan for a number of years and I'm familiar with their system at the airports. Japan is not America and I do not find it useful or interesting to compare the two approaches; when I lived there - and indeed, whenever I go back - I'm aware of and resigned to the aspect of that society not giving a shit about it all. I do not think America needs to be the same way.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#258

Post by crazygringo »

iAMkenough wrote: post #252
crazygringo wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what you mean by "managed by". But I'd be perfectly happy to use a phone made by any of them that let me upload my driver's license to a wallet they managed. I mean, why wouldn't I? What do I care whether China knows who I am...? I mean, I've already given them my passport when I visited anyways.

I'll manage it for you. Just send me an email with a photo copy of your identifying information and I'll add it to a digital wallet I'm working on for you. You've got nothing to worry about, right?

Why would I want you to manage it? Are you making a phone I want to buy?

Just because I'm happy with some corporations having a scan of my driver's license doesn't mean I'm happy with anybody having it.

Are you already storing the details of millions of others, and mine is nothing special? Are you a publicly traded corporation accountable to shareholders? Are you a nation-state with procedures around all these things? Or are you a criminal trying to sign up for credit cards in my name?

Your supposed equivalence isn't an equivalence at all.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#259

Post by mathgeek »

throwaway290 wrote: post #255
mathgeek wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An example from me wouldn’t disprove your claim that there are places with equal rights across the board. E.g. in the US it’s clear that the wealthy have rights granted via political donations. That doesn’t prove or disprove your claim. I hesitate to even mention such examples for fear of a response being more focused in it than the claim you made.

I am ok if you say "people with more money live better lives" but if you say "people with more money have more rights " is a bomb statement because "rights" means something specific and legally important.

Your statements make more sense then. You are only concerned with a specific set of rights.
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