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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#251

Post by grebc »

lurquer wrote: post #236
grebc wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assassination & attempted assassinations have all happened within 12ish months. You’ve got an executive branch stacking all open positions in judicial and legislative branches with their political appointees. And the executive is interpreting the law to gather as much power as possible to the head of state. It’s not hard to see the parallels but you keep on trucking dude.

> You’ve got an executive branch stacking all open positions in judicial and legislative branches with their political appointees. The judicial branch is composed of Judges who are confirmed by the Senate… not the executive branch. And there are no ‘Legislative branch’ appointees. I assume you mean the executive branch is making appointments to the executive branch? Who would you prefer to make such appointments? The…

I understand Trump nominated and congress/senate approved the last couple of Supreme Court members?

I’d classify things like FDA/FAA as legislative parts of the governments but maybe that’s wrong.

Also I don’t see other governments shutting down regularly with a cheer squad saying yeah this is nothing to worry about, our democracy is 100% A OK.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#252

Post by krisoft »

mcphage wrote: post #241
krisoft wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference here is that everyone needs air traffic control This is very much not true. People who don’t own or operate aircraft don’t need air traffic control. > and there's zero choices Probably what you are saying here is that air traffic control is a natural monopoly. You can’t have two (or more) paralel systems issuing clearances at the same time in the same airspace. That would be madness. But what I’m say…

> People who don’t own or operate aircraft don’t need air traffic control. Also people who ride on airplanes.

Indirectly. Do you think electric substations should be also bought from tax money? Everyone who uses electricity need those too (indirectly).

It is a clear service which certain companies and individuals need. Why don’t we let them pay for it.

This is not some crazy fringe idea. This is how it works in Canada. Here are the current prices to operate a flight in or over Canada: https://www.navcanada.ca/en/customer-guide-to-charges---effe...

Are you flying a Boeing 747-400 from Seatle to London return overflying Canada? That will be $5,370.78 please. It consist of $66.10 for oceanic services and $5,304.68 for enroute services.

Are you flying an Embraer 175 from Halifax to St John return? Good on ya. That will be $1,608.04. Pleasure doing busines.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#253

Post by grebc »

lurquer wrote: post #237
more_corn wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re seeing deliberate attacks on: Fair elections Rule of law Independence of courts Checks and balances I expect if you don’t think this is going to get bad you’re not paying attention.

None of which has anything to do with the ‘last days of the Roman Republic.’ Feel free to panic and tear your hair out… that’s what both sides do. Boring. The post, however, make some pretentious analogy to the Roman Republic. The analogy was silly. That’s all. It’s just an annoying variant of Godwins law: Rome or Hitler… the only two analogies available to those ignorant of history.

No one’s panicking but you pal.

I made an observation that the present day is rhyming with history. You’re now raising Godwin’s law.

Good job.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#254

Post by krisoft »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #219
krisoft wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The difference here is that everyone needs air traffic control This is very much not true. People who don’t own or operate aircraft don’t need air traffic control. > and there's zero choices Probably what you are saying here is that air traffic control is a natural monopoly. You can’t have two (or more) paralel systems issuing clearances at the same time in the same airspace. That would be madness. But what I’m say…

Yea that's the point I'm making that it's a natural monopoly. And yea the examples you provide are another way to handle a monopoly, though it's not really clear to me what the comprehensive benefits actually would be. Other than to create an appearance of arms length from government. Would have the upside of not being shutdown due to the USA's crazy government shutdown nonsense, tho possibly you still have the shutd…

> Other than to create an appearance of arms length from government.

Big benefit is to separate the regulator from the regulated entity. That alone could probably stop the kind of group thinking which let them route a busy helicopter route through a busy landing corridor with inadequate procedural controls.

Other big benefit is to make the flight operators pay directly for the services the flight operators need. We are not paying their fuel from taxes, why do we pay for air navigation services from taxes?

> Would have the upside of not being shutdown due to the USA's crazy government shutdown nonsense

That is why it is brought up, yes. That is the most direct benefit at this moment.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#255

Post by grebc »

tialaramex wrote: post #170
grebc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republican Congress is in his pocket. If he wanted a compromise you bet your bottom dollar it would happen.

There's a conflict because Trump thinks the obvious way forward is you destroy the filibuster, and the Republicans in the Senate fear that when there are more Democrats - say, after the mid-terms - they need the filibuster or else Democratic priorities can become law by simple majority. Imagine trying to explain to Trump that you can't destroy the filibuster because too many of your colleagues might lose an election.…

I actually give Trump more credit for understanding scrapping filibuster is the wrong move.

I also think he’s smart enough to realise people think he’s dumb. So he says scrap filibuster as a way to sow the seeds that there’s tension where there really isn’t.

Maybe it’s too much 4D chess but he is a master manipulator of media/public opinion.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#256

Post by AaronAPU »

therobots927 wrote: post #198
slg wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a reason I started my first comment the way I did. For Trump's entire time in politics, there have been people trying to communicate the type of person he is and the plans he has for the US and there have been people like you who have said we're overreacting. It doesn't matter what actually happens. I could probably list dozens of examples, from the overturning of Roe v Wade to the violence of ICE, of times…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#257

Post by koolba »

jacquesm wrote: post #232
koolba wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You'd think that after more than half a year of outright destruction of your country you'd stop digging. Indeed, elections have consequences, so why are you so upset with the democrats? Aren't you going to fix things now? This is your finest hour, and it will be remembered for a long time, how you acted and what drove you to keep on digging that hole when it was abundantly clear that the path chosen wasn't working at…

> Indeed, elections have consequences, so why are you so upset with the democrats? Aren't you going to fix things now?

The destruction I see is being done by the unreasonable Democrat Senators holding hostage hungry children and Federal workforce.

> This is your finest hour, and it will be remembered for a long time, how you acted and what drove you to keep on digging that hole when it was abundantly clear that the path chosen wasn't working at all.

The intransigence of the Democrats is what will be remembered here. They will eventually cave, their old guard that did so will be booted in the next primary, and their replacements will have their clocks cleaned in the next general elections.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#258

Post by throw0101a »

themafia wrote: post #67
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

> no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. What if you collect too much? The fund is subject to appropriations. > financing their local ATC as they see fit We already use mileage based overflight fees: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/international_aviation/overf...

> What if you collect too much?

You lower fees the next year.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#259

Post by koolba »

RickJWagner wrote: post #210
thrance wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democrats refuse to vote the budget because the GOP removed almost all healthcare funding from it and won't compromise on that. If this budget passes as is, millions will die of preventable diseases. How is it on democrats?

Isn’t it true that the healthcare part only involves credits that were supposed to be temporary during COVID? Also, isn’t it true that the expiring credits are for people who earn more money than ACA allowed? ( In other words, the poor still get assistance.) Please provide receipts if there are other aspects to be considered.

Yes it’s true that those provisions expired, the Republicans are not changing or removing anything, and it’s the Democrats that are demanding additional funding to replace the Covid era funding that is expiring.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#260

Post by throw0101a »

HPsquared wrote: post #65
dylan604 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves. No, they would be glad to increase fares so that the flying customers pay for the service themselves. Currently, ATC is subsidized by all tax payers. Your method moves the burden to only those that pay for fares. I'm just pointing it out not saying it is good/bad.

That's probably better anyway. Air fares should cover the costs of flying. It's already a very profitable activity: it's much more efficient than the alternatives, and flying provides much value to passengers. So why can't the industry fund itself?

> […] it's much more efficient than the alternatives […]

Efficiency by what metric? Energy per distance travelled? Energy per kilogram moved (per kilometer?)? Time? CO2 emissions?

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transport

* https://ourworldindata.org/travel-carbon-footprint

For distances 900km planes are, but in between trains are often quickest (assuming infrastructure is actually present).

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