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Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#251

Post by zahlman »

oblio wrote: post #173
j45 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a comment just about Python.. but it should just work. There shouldn't be constant ceremony for getting and keeping environments running.

There are basically 0 other programming languages that use the "directory/shell integration activated virtual environment", outside of Python. How does the rest of the world manage to survive without venvs? Config files in the directory. Shocking, really :-)))

> Config files in the directory.

The problem is, that would require support from the Python runtime itself (so that `sys.path` can be properly configured at startup) and it would have to be done in a way that doesn't degrade the experience for people who aren't using a proper "project" setup.

One of the big selling points of Python is that you can just create a .py file anywhere, willy-nilly, and execute the code with a Python interpreter, just as you would with e.g. a Bash script. And that you can incrementally build up from there, as you start out learning programming, to get a sense of importing files, and then creating meaningful "projects", and then thinking about packaging and distribution.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#252

Post by talsperre »

uv is the best tool out there as long as you have python only dependencies. It's really fast, and you can avoid using poetry, pipenv, etc. The only reason for conda to still exist is non pythonic dependencies, but that's another beast to tackle in itself.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#253

Post by ifwinterco »

Ant59 wrote: post #226
chrisweekly wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webdev since 1998 here. Tabling the python vs JS/etc to comment on npm per se. PNPM is better than npm in every way. Strongest possible recommendation to use it instead of npm; it's faster, more efficient, safer, and more deterministic. See https://pnpm.io/motivation

I've gone all-in on Bun for many of the same reasons. Blazingly fast installs too. https://bun.sh/

I think at this point everyone on hacker news with even a passing interest in JS has heard of bun, it's promoted relentlessly

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#255

Post by rtpg »

mk89 wrote: post #239
hardwaregeek wrote: post #149

I gotta say, I feel pretty vindicated after hearing for years how Python’s tooling was just fine and you should just use virtualenv with pip and how JS must be worse, that when Python devs finally get a taste of npm/cargo/bundler in their ecosystem, they freaking love it. Because yes, npm has its issues but lock files and consistent installs are amazing

I have used pip freeze > requirements.txt pip install -r requirements.txt Way before "official" lockfile existed. Your requirements.txt becomes a lockfile, as long as you accept to not use ranges. Having this in a single tool etc why not, but I don't understand this hype, when it was basically already there.

As a “pip is mostly fine” person, we would direct the result to a new lock file, so you could still have your direct does and then pin transitives and update

Pips solver could still cause problems in general on changes.

UV having a better solver is nice. Being fast is also nice. Mainly tho it feeling like it is a tool that is maintained and can be improved upon without ripping one’s hair out is a godsend.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#256

Post by bdangubic »

icedchai wrote: post #246
mk89 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used pip freeze > requirements.txt pip install -r requirements.txt Way before "official" lockfile existed. Your requirements.txt becomes a lockfile, as long as you accept to not use ranges. Having this in a single tool etc why not, but I don't understand this hype, when it was basically already there.

That works for simple cases. Now, update a transitive dependency used by more than one dependency. You might get lucky and it'll just work.

it won’t work of course, no one is that lucky :)

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#258

Post by KK7NIL »

KaiserPro wrote: post #142
verdverm wrote: post #11

I'd put type annotations and GIL removal above UV without a second thought. UV is still young and I hit some of those growing pains. While it is very nice, I'm not going to put it up there with sliced bread, it's just another package manager among many

typed annotations that are useful. Currently they are a bit pointless. Sure they aid in documentation, but they are effort and cause you pain when making modifications (mind you with halfarse agentic coding its probably less of a problem. ) What would be better is to have a strict mode where instead of duck typing its pre-declared. It would also make a bunch of things faster (along with breaking everything and the sp…

You can get pretty darn close to static typing by using ty (from the same team as uv).

I've been using it professionally and its been a big improvement for code quality.

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#259

Post by bdangubic »

nullbyte wrote: post #245
chrisweekly wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Webdev since 1998 here. Tabling the python vs JS/etc to comment on npm per se. PNPM is better than npm in every way. Strongest possible recommendation to use it instead of npm; it's faster, more efficient, safer, and more deterministic. See https://pnpm.io/motivation

I find pnpm annoying to type, that's why I don't use it

alias it to “p”

Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade

#260

Post by zmmmmm » 

    > Instead of 
    >
    > source .venv/bin/activate
    > python myscript.py
    >
    > you can just do
    >
    > > uv run myscript
    >
This is by far the biggest turn off for me. The whole point of an environment manager is set the environment so that the commands I run work. They need to run natively how they are supposed to when the environment is set, not put through a translation layer.

Side rant: yes I get triggered whenever someone tells me "you can just" do this thing that is actually longer and worse than the original.

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