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Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

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Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#251

Post by chipsrafferty »

slibhb wrote: post #92
Insanity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question.. where? Most bread seems to be high in additives and promoted as a “healthy food”, like additional vitamines etc. And even when buying natural bread without these added “benefits”, it often has high levels of sodium (up to like 200mg per slice). Bread is one of the easiest, most plain things to make, yet finding high quality bread isn’t straightforward in the States. But I do really want to know whic…

Search Google maps for "bakery" and sort by rating. It's not hard to find a good bakery in any dense area in the US. I have to imagine people claiming otherwise are indulging in Yankee-bashing, a favorite European pastime.

I live in the largest city in the US and saying that the average bread/pastry quality even comes close to Europe is insane.

Sure, you can get good bread here. However it's going to cost you 5x what it costs in Europe and it might take you up to 30 minutes to get too depending on where you live. Most bread in the US is low quality. Most bread in Europe is high quality. There is good bread to be found in the US, and there's bad bread in Europe. But the average bread just isn't even close to being equal.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#252

Post by chipsrafferty »

watwut wrote: post #166
hulitu wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bread is one of the easiest, most plain things to make, yet finding high quality bread isn’t straightforward in the States Finding high quality bread isn’t straightforward anywhere in EU. It either has sugar or additives or it is cooked at a too low temperature to be useful.

> or it is cooked at a too low temperature to be useful In what way is that bread "not useful"?

cooked too low

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#253

Post by CrimsonCape »

bruce511 wrote: post #140
pazimzadeh wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most Americans aren’t exposed to enough quality foods of certain types at a young age to develop the taste for them. For example, most Americans think Hershey’s is what chocolate is supposed to taste like, because they grew up with it. Same with the mushy Chorleywood processed bread and most American “cheese”

I think this is certainly the root of the misunderstandings in this (and other) spaces. At the very-local level of course there are exceptions, but generally speaking US food is terrible compared to European food. The US optimizes for volume and cost, Europe leans more towards quality. Yes, there's a lot of cheap rubbish food in Europe, but those consuming it know it's cheap rubbish. By contrast, and to your point, m…

It is increasingly trendy for grocery stores in America to have a "fancy cheese" section because the unit cost (eg dollar-per-ounce) of cheese makes it profitable. I'm guessing Europeans are paying high unit cost too, but don't mind because it's more socially engrained to seek out "quality" foods like fancy cheese.

In the USA, cheese is either a salad topping, a sandwich/burger topping, or a pizza topping, and not much else. I once bought some pecorino romano to make cacio-e-pepe and regret doing that, it's an overhyped dish.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#254

Post by fsckboy »

baxtr wrote: post #159
fsckboy wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that they export the junk cheese to the US and keep the good stuff people who produce and sell stuff follow profit maximization. Colombia sells its best coffee on the export market because there it will command the highest prices. The people who live in wine growing regions (agricultural) do not have the disposable income to afford expensive wines, so they are shipped to cities. Great croissants are sold locally be…

What you are describing holds true only if the buyer values the higher quality, which is true for coffee. But if you can send the cheap stuff and get the same price why not do that and keep the high quality items for the local market? Southern Europeans export their tasteless tomatoes to Northern Europe because people there don’t value tasty tomatoes that much. So southern Europeans keep the good vegetables for thems…

>What you are describing holds true only if the buyer values the higher quality, which is true for coffee.

what I describe holds true because I didn't fall into the trap you are trying to dig me out of.

I said: the sellers profit maximize. What you are saying only makes a difference in who they sell to... in order to, as I said, profit maximize.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#255

Post by com2kid »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #231
com2kid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A minor correction to your base premise - There is a bagel shop in Newton MA that is open for a few hours in the morning that has bagels just as good as NYC. People line to before they open and the bagels are quickly sold out in a mad rush. There is a French bakery close to me in Seattle there makes croissants in the morning and they sell out in less than 2 hours. IMHO they are the best croissants in the city, althou…

> There is a bagel shop in Newton MA that is open for a few hours in the morning that has bagels just as good as NYC I love this!

There is a near 5 star restaurant in Duvall Washington called Flavor Bistro. If you ever find yourself in Duvall for whatever reason, go eat there! The chef is super nice and the food is amazing.

Random lolwtfbbq quality restaurants are some of the best finds.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#256

Post by marklubi »

MiddleEndian wrote: post #212
marklubi wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar thing with orange juice. The producers add 'flavor packs' to adjust the taste for different regions of the US. My son and I travel all over the US for various competitions, and there are certain regions where he refuses to get OJ because of the flavor differences.

I never looked into why, but when I moved from Boston to Seattle, I noticed dairy products (milk, cottage cheese) tasted different in Seattle. Confirmed it again when I moved back to Boston.

Haven't noticed that one. Oxidation perhaps, or maybe salt in the air based on the locations?

West coast food (particularly oysters) seems to be a little bit more salty/briny.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#257

Post by PetitPrince »

marklubi wrote: post #256
MiddleEndian wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never looked into why, but when I moved from Boston to Seattle, I noticed dairy products (milk, cottage cheese) tasted different in Seattle. Confirmed it again when I moved back to Boston.

Haven't noticed that one. Oxidation perhaps, or maybe salt in the air based on the locations? West coast food (particularly oysters) seems to be a little bit more salty/briny.

What you feed your cattle change how their milk taste; where I live there's a noticeable different between summer (where cows graze on alpine meadows) and winter (hay) milk.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#258

Post by slibhb »

chipsrafferty wrote: post #251
slibhb wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search Google maps for "bakery" and sort by rating. It's not hard to find a good bakery in any dense area in the US. I have to imagine people claiming otherwise are indulging in Yankee-bashing, a favorite European pastime.

I live in the largest city in the US and saying that the average bread/pastry quality even comes close to Europe is insane. Sure, you can get good bread here. However it's going to cost you 5x what it costs in Europe and it might take you up to 30 minutes to get too depending on where you live. Most bread in the US is low quality. Most bread in Europe is high quality. There is good bread to be found in the US, and th…

> Sure, you can get good bread here

Yes.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#259

Post by yesco »

bobthepanda wrote: post #238
yesco wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait so when Europeans complain about American cheese, they are talking about Kraft/Velveeta? I always thought of those as their own independent thing, do they not purchase their cheese at the deli? Most foods exported across the Atlantic are not going to be the fresh kind...

They purchase European cheeses given that most American cheese types are descended from European cheeses; cheddar is English and blue is descended from English Stilton.

Your reply doesn't answer my question and seems to imply things I can't understand. Are you suggesting people in Europe simply use the same kind of cheese with everything? I find that hard to believe. Perhaps you have never bought cheese at a deli? There happen to be many kinds.

Your last point is even more confusing, why would the fact that chedder and blue cheese originate from England have anything to do with this? It's like random trivia you interlaced here, it's very strange. I can't seem to grok it.

Re: Why does Swiss cheese have holes?

#260

Post by bobthepanda »

yesco wrote: post #259
bobthepanda wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They purchase European cheeses given that most American cheese types are descended from European cheeses; cheddar is English and blue is descended from English Stilton.

Your reply doesn't answer my question and seems to imply things I can't understand. Are you suggesting people in Europe simply use the same kind of cheese with everything? I find that hard to believe. Perhaps you have never bought cheese at a deli? There happen to be many kinds. Your last point is even more confusing, why would the fact that chedder and blue cheese originate from England have anything to do with this…

They don’t buy American cheese, the melty product. They actually don’t buy much American (of origin) cheese at all at their delis because American origin cheeses are all descended from the diverse array of European cheeses, and there are melty, non-sodium citrate European cheeses. So yes, the most common form of American cheese found is the Kraft/Velveeta variety and that is really mostly aimed at expats nostalgic for it.

Europe exports $2.8bn of dairy to the US. The reverse is only $167m of trade.

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