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French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#251
post #240
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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I moved from the USA to France and your statement surprised me. Looking around for some data, I'm seeing around 4,600 French nationals who obtained U.S. permanent resident status compared to 13,000 issued to U.S. citizens by France. So about 3x more US -> France and rising. https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving... https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4...

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Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#252

There is no excuse for corruption. However, everyone in all countries should ask themselves whether or not most of the representatives in their congress/parliament would, if investigated, be found guilty of the same sort of corruption. Power corrupts.

If you read up on this story, you'd find out it's not run off the mill corruption. Sarkozy actually conspired with a foreign state – in particular with someone who directed a terror attack that killed 50 french citizens (!) – to fund his campaign.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#254

[flagged]

Law doesn't seek to punish but to rehabilitate. Act of taking freedom away from the criminal is violent enough. Treating them badly is just a sign of unfair/poor society that cannot maintain (afford to keep) it's promise to be civil to all citizens.

Rehabilitate and/or deter. The extent to which it is either the former or the latter depends on the country. That also determines whether or not "treating them badly" should be a feature of the justice system.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#255
post #240
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I moved from the USA to France and your statement surprised me. Looking around for some data, I'm seeing around 4,600 French nationals who obtained U.S. permanent resident status compared to 13,000 issued to U.S. citizens by France. So about 3x more US -> France and rising. https://schengenvisainfo.com/news/number-of-americans-moving... https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/8c273940-72b7-4...

[flagged]

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#256

Something really scary in France right now is that you can see really clearly how most mainstream media are used for propaganda. Since a few days, there is an abundance of cover and articles in most major newspaper here with propaganda and repeated lies supporting him. It's hard to imagine but non stop. You have everyday interviews of his family saying that it is an injustice, that he did nothing, that the judgement…

This is exactly the same in the US. Perhaps all countries at this point.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#257
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you are referring to is vengeance, not justice. Some people see the two as inseparable and others do not.

Sure, then who is reponsible for vengeance if not law? And why vengeance is not part of justice, this is not clear here.

Because vengeance has never done anyone any good. You never feel better after getting vengeance, just hollow. Thus, a good legal system should strive to provide justice, not vengeance.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#258
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Must justice include punishment? If someone hits me, I'd much rather they take responsibility, apologise, and work on themselves to become a better person, than simply get locked up for a while.

If the only repercussion for assault is they need to apologize and "work on themselves", then what's stopping more people from committing assault? There needs to be punishment.

I don't think that people are stopped from committing assault by an abstract risk-benefit calculation that considers the likelihood of jailtime. It's not what stops me, at least. Mostly I just don't want to. And even if I do want to hit someone, I know that that fleeting temptation doesn't accord with my fundamental values; I'll feel bad afterwards. I'm intimately aware that they might retaliate, or that I might accidentally kill them (or vice versa). It just doesn't feel worth it because I've been socialised to weigh up those odds. But the distant prospect of jail time feels abstract and harder to socialise into people in the heat of the moment.

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#259

A former Prime Minister of a first world country in jail is insane. He must have made a crime without the help of others because in political scandals usually a whole gang of public people is liable. Then you have to convict the monkey with the bananas and the whole tree. If we follow the French justice, in my country (Greece) about 10% of people including almost all the politicians of the last decades should be in j…

President

Re: French ex-president Sarkozy begins jail sentence

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

afaik only the USA and Japan

Singapore and China

There are 53 states (out of 193 UN states + 2 observer states) that have not abolished, and continue to use the death penalty.

"First-world" is Cold War terminology meaning Western countries and their allies, as opposed to second-world Warsaw Pact states and their allies, versus third-world non-aligned states. This would include death penalty states like Pakistan and Iran, who at one point were British dominions.

If we instead mean "developed countries" (as defined by the IMF), then 4 out of 60 developed countries have not abolished the death penalty: they are the United States, Japan, Singapore and Taiwan.

The other 49 states continuing to use the death penalty (including China) are not considered "developed countries" by the IMF.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_by_country

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