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Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the best way? China's rise had already happened by the 2010s Preventing that could have been prevented in the 70s, 80s, 90s by stopping offshoring, blocking student visas, and prosecuting IP theft.

The inclusion of China in the WTO is what changed everything. The elites thought they'd set up shop in a new, gigantic consumer market and reap the rewards. So they got Clinton to spend his last days in office lobbying very aggressively for China's inclusion into the WTO. China had different plans. Keeping the plunderers out (this time) was one of the smartest moves any nation has made in recorded history. Then the s…

They didn't keep the foreign corporations out. Having them as on-shore competitors is what keeps their own companies from merely seeking rents. Foreign companies also didn't bring their best products in the beginning out of the fear of getting copied, but that strategy is not sustainable over time as Chinese companies get better at making things.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#253
post #8

Does someone know if there's some equivalent of those engineering/research blogs for Chinese companies? I used to follow the ones from Western companies, but honestly, after some point in time, I would like to see some cases from what I consider is a good benchmark for everyone that does not work in FAANG in terms of engineering.

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, and lots more immigration too. I don't know if those are the ones with college degree, but you can see who's writing all the academic papers. Look up stats like the 3rd most popular language by state and you'll be surprised. There has been a huge effort to import doctors from all over for example, due to the shortage in the US. Even in our tech industry, you don't need to look far to see all the H-1B's. I can't…

Your argument was that the U.S. needs immigration to compete with China’s population advantage. But China doesn’t have a population advantage in college educated workers. China has to scale its educated workforce by sending more of its population to college. Which is certainly doable, but they are currently where the U.S. was 60 years ago. Also, the U.S. has a fertility edge over China, which skilled immigrants do no…

You're taking things too one-to-one.

Skilled immigrants may not contribute to birth rate much, but immigrants as a whole contribute to the workforce across the spectrum. More working age people means less demand for unskilled labor, more demand for skilled labor and more competition for higher achievements to qualify for skilled work.

There are millions of phd's and super-talented engineers, but it is a small percentage of those that actually innovate and invent new things. And for them to do that, you need a corporate/commercial sector funding it. Even someone flipping burgers at mcdonalds is a consumer contributing to economic activity, which in turn contributes to funding competitive R&D and risk taking.

Simply having lots of people and free schools won't do much on its own. You need R&D funded, you need companies and the government itself to invest in risky scientific endeavors. Highly skilled jobs need to pay well. For example, there is a metric crapton of talent in Europe that flocks to the US for the pay alone, even though most of them hate it here. Even Candian pay across the border is dismal. That's why Europe doesn't have Nvidias, Intels, Googles,etc..

This very site alone belongs to US venture capitalists which are a product of capital available, a pipeline of educated labor domestically as well as immigrants. The products and services companies sell is mostly funded by consumers buying things, they can buy those things because they have jobs that pay well. The guy who flips burgers at mcdonalds buys a nintendo switch, the help desk worker nvidia gpus,etc... if your population is too old, those things don't happen, old people conserve money and their economic activity doesn't go as far.

Have you heard of the vitality curve? It's how in virtually everything involving human contribution, 10-20% carry the "thing" 10-20% are detrimental to it and everyone in between is needed to keep it from crumbling. I believe that's why performance reviews are always in quintiles. Either way, I don't know if the top 10% that give the US an advantage are immigrants, but some of them for sure. and a lot of the papers I'm seeing from the US in recent years have not been from US sounding names. But the middle 60% or so, it doesn't matter where they're from, you need enough people that are skilled and competent to keep the ship afloat.

If all the variables are the same, China has more people so it wins by default. The US however can attract talent from all over the world for the top 10% talent and have them compete. I don't know the stats but let's say 95% of educated people are native born. That still doesn't mean the competition for top jobs is adequate. To compete with China, the US's top 10% talent must have more quality to make up for the lack of quantity. Quality isn't measured by numbers and it isn't a product of random lack you can improve by increasing quantity. it's a product of competition and the incentives and rewards at the end, which includes compensation but more than that - the quality of life money affords.

In other words, whether immigrants are smarter or not, they can either contribute to the economy by being good and reliable consumers and laborers that create more economic activity and drive the demand and opportunities for skilled work, or, they can drive up the compeition for skilled work, driving up quality.

What you have in the US, is a lot of educated people are into things like health care these days, because that's where the demand is. Even immigrants. But in east asia, it's much worse, they do needs lots more health care workers and care givers for the elderly, which even there, they're using more and more immigrants.

The bulk importing of immigrants only serves to stabilize the economy. The importing of educated immigrants and workers (Most of YC would collapse without H-1B lol) drives competition and increases quality (innovation,inventiveness,etc..).

You can have more americans, even have more americans attend more college. But you can't kick out americans that refuse to pursue education or are content with mediocrity. You can filter out immigrants by telling them they don't have enough education or money (we've been doing this for a long time in the US), but you can't do that with natural born americans.

If you work in tech, this should be of no surprise to you.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

>But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and lack of similar levels of internal strife and fissures. Do I infer correctly that you believe that China has less internal strife and fissures than the US has?

By perception of the population at least, yes. I mean, the US is literally on the verge of a civil war lol.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

Nobody is anti-immigrant outside of a small pocket of anti-H1B folks in the tech community. People are, however, anti- illegal -immigrant, which is completely different.

A lot of actual racists nazis hijack the anti-illegal-immigrant sentiment. I get that it's illegal, and every US administration has enforced it strictly (despite popular rhetoric).

But, the value illegal immigrants bring to the US economy cannot be understated. Purely from a economic standpoint, illegal immigrants are a huge asset. There are other portions of the population that are largely a liability.

It's not like illegal immigrants are taking skilled work americans could be doing. And let's be honest, even without illegal immigrants, a lot of unskilled work will be replaced by AI/automation.

I personally, have no problem against humane and lawful enforcement of immigration laws. But given that it is a determent to the economy, perhaps more serious and concerning crimes should be enforced? Perhaps the targets should be employers of illegal immigrants? Perhaps zip tying children and locking them in cages and denying them basic hygiene is not the right approach? I think the details is where it gets controversial, most sane people would agree that laws should be enforced.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Models take a lot of VRAM which is tightly coupled to the GPU so yeah, it's basically sitting there with the model waiting for use. I'm sure they probably do idle out but a few minutes of idle time is a lot of waste--possibly the full 82% mentioned. In this case they optimized by letting the GPUs load multiple models and sharing the load out by token.

They definitely won't idle out- if they idle out, it'll take on the order of up to 60 seconds to load the model back into VRAM, depending on the model. That's an eternity for a request. I highly doubt they will timeout any model they serve.

  > That's an eternity for a request. I highly doubt they will timeout any model they serve.
That's what easing functions are for.

Let's say 10 GPUs are in use. You keep another 3 with the model loaded. If demand increases slowly you slowly increase your headroom. If demand increases rapidly, you also increase rapidly.

The correct way to do this is more complicated and you should model based on your usage history, but if you have sufficient headroom then very few should be left idle. Remember that these models do requests in batches.

If they don't timeout models, they're throwing money down the drain. Though that wouldn't be uncommon.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#259
post #244
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much higher standards than European ones? Because the cars do sell there as well.

Yes. The EU focuses on safety of pedestrians, and the US focuses on safety of occupants. That's not to say a vehicle cannot do both well (see the many European vehicles sold in the US), but that is to say Chinese vehicles may not meet the US standards. The US has a lot of vehicle regulations that significantly differ from the EU market.

Do you mind providing sources for that?

Because, as a EU citizen, I have never in my life seen any tests that carmarkers are advertising with that focus on pedestrians. I am regularly seeing tests that focus on occupants though, e.g. the Euro NCAP. But I am by no means an expert.

It would be hard to focus on pedestrian safety from a carmaker standpoint except for adding software features that recognize people in front of you and auto-brake or smth, which definitely is not the focus of the tests here. It may be a requirement though. The more I think about it, the more sure I am that you just made this up, sorry.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#260
post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

I think anti-immigrant rhetoric will have the most impact against the US. A lot of the people innovating on this stuff are being maligned and leaving in droves. Aside from geography, attracting talent from all over the world is the one edge the US has a nation over countries like China. But now the US is trying to be xenophobic like China, restrict tech import/export like China but compete against 10x population and…

I went to a school that was heavy on immigrants and had lots of 1st gen citizens as students and all they did was advocate against people like me for admissions and for preferential admissions for their own group. So in my opinion, skilled immigration is not a transfer of talent but an expansion of the upper classes who go to war with each other over a small number of seats. Ironically this zero sum game keeps overall skill levels the same. For every immigrant, say, one citizen loses a seat somewhere.
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