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Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

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Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#251

Post by Reason077 »

blurrybird wrote: post #173
daneel_w wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

FWIW I am Australian and we have a similar adoption rate of cashless payments. If a merchant tries to promote cash options I immediately think they’re doing it for tax evasion reasons - not because of the touted reason that “card payments cost more to process” (they don’t once you factor in the cost of handling cash).

> "FWIW I am Australian and we have a similar adoption rate of cashless payments. If a merchant tries to promote cash options I immediately think they’re doing it for tax evasion reasons"

I don't know about Australia, but in New Zealand many small retailers and restaurants add a card payment surcharge (typically 1.5%-2.5%) automatically when you pay by card. So you are somewhat penalised for the convenience of using a card. This never happens in Europe.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#252

Post by Theodores »

jhbadger wrote: post #208
tdeck wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same thing in the US about small businesses that only take cash, but it's still pretty normal to use cash in the US.

People forget that the credit card companies charge businesses to process transactions. Some stores/restaurants even give discounts for paying in cash because of this.

In the UK this was banned in 2018. The cash price has to be the same as the debit/credit card price, which is not exactly 'freedom'.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#253

Post by tdeck »

jhbadger wrote: post #208
tdeck wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the same thing in the US about small businesses that only take cash, but it's still pretty normal to use cash in the US.

People forget that the credit card companies charge businesses to process transactions. Some stores/restaurants even give discounts for paying in cash because of this.

I know that this is true (I used to work in card payment infrastructure), but I've also talked to people who run cash businesses and deliberately under report their income. So I think it's not so uncommon.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#254

Post by hoistbypetard »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #220
tcshit wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d say he’s correct, people under 60 that uses cash are considered, if not criminal, at least suspicious, like they have something to hide. Or simply wackos. I haven’t used cash for the last 15 years or so. Except for when I had carpenters at home who wanted to get paid in cash (to avoid taxes, so called black money).

So do you like always take split bills for everything? Like when eg. 4 coworkers go to eat together (ie. not a situation where one person pays everything)? Over here in the balkans/mitteleuropa you just put some approximate amount of cash on the table. Same for kids, you're not giving a kid your credit card when you send him to a bakery to get bread, you give him a couple of euros in cash.

> Same for kids, you're not giving a kid your credit card when you send him to a bakery to get bread, you give him a couple of euros in cash.

I got caught out by a thing like this, recently. (I'm on the east coast of the US.)

My kids had a day off from school, and it was a nice day to ride bikes. There's a small municipal park around 5 miles (8 km) away, with a nice mini-golf course and a grill/cafe next to it. They were eager to go by themselves, so I told them they could ride their bikes there and gave each kid enough cash for a round of mini-golf, a cold drink and some lunch.

The park was card only! While that has been happening more and more, I was not expecting that from a city park. Thankfully, they're not shy kids, and they persuaded one of the park employees to use a personal card in exchange for cash. But I was shocked. They're 10 and 13 years old... it had not previously occurred to me that I should give them cards of any kind.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#255

Post by zdc1 »

freetime2 wrote: post #190

I'm not sure what they have in mind for supporting offline payments, but I think that Japan's FeliCa-based [1] electronic money systems (Suica, iD, etc) are pretty impressive. They are most typically used to pay for transportation, but also widely accepted at stores, vending machines, etc. Balances are stored on the card, and it's very fast to use and seems secure for the most part. Recently it's also available on an…

Taiwan's EasyCard and iCash are their local equivalents. Seems to be common in that part of East Asia to have public transport cards that can also work for small expenses.

I wish other governments would take note as its a nice way to avoid the Visa/MC/Amex fees for at least some expenses.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#256

Post by unit149 »

yieldcrv wrote: post #3

offline key signing and broadcasting later should be a simple thing although heavily misunderstood, this is built into cryptocurrencies since day 1 (many critics have long thought crypto requires power and internet access, many proponents also don't know otherwise) with card networks learning from competition and functionally being public-only keys, this should be even simpler to implement

[dead]

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#257

Post by hbn »

daneel_w wrote: post #50
Etheryte wrote: post #5

Some context might be useful here. I spent some time living Sweden not too long ago and Swedes practically don't use cash. It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal, to the point that most don't have any at all. Digital payments are very convenient and deeply integrated, so long as you have a local ID which allows you use the local payment system Swish etc. This worked nice…

> "It's usually not said out loud, but cash is often considered to be dirty and criminal ..." Are you sure this isn't impression you've gotten from isolated reactions involving a small number of individuals, perhaps just a single individual? I can't relate to the sentiment at all, having lived here for just over three decades and experiencing the popularity shift from cash to debit card. I can, in fact, not recall a…

> Murder is actually really frowned in Japan. It goes against the traditional concept of 生きる, which means "to live"

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#258

Post by rr808 »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #71
pjmlp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly like that most likely, I am old enough to remember those machines where credit cards left their mark on the receipt, that is why their numbers are higher than the card. Here, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_card_imprinter

What’s fascinating (apart from the sound those things made is still in my head) is that the very nature of the technology meant who could and could not get credit varied. At first (1950 diners card onwards) only well off could use it at limited establishments (ie restaurants) and they would postal deliver lists of cars - initially white lists of valid card owners and later hot lists of delinquent card owners. Stick y…

I think it was normal that you had to show ID that matched the card name, and compare the signatures too. Now the signatures are just a spot to draw something funny.

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#259

Post by amarant »

derefr wrote: post #243
daneel_w wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting rev…

Yeah there's that cash only bar in central Stockholm that's cash only. Everyone just "knows" they launder money there. I forget the name of the bar, it's on a barge near Tantolunden. it's the shadiest place I know where you can't barely find any shade!

Re: Offline card payments should be possible no later than 1 July 2026

#260

Post by dumbfounder »

derefr wrote: post #243
daneel_w wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to differentiate common purchases from "large" purchases in this discussion. I'm certain you don't think there's something shady going on, or tax evasion happening, if someone uses cash in the grocery store or at Pressbyrån, or to pay for some little gadget or whatever at Kjell&Co. This is what people think of when someone "uses cash". Not hauling tens of thousands to buy a used car or to settle the bill for…

I think they're talking about when merchants insist that you give them cash ("cash only"), not when buyers insist on giving cash. The usual assumption is that if e.g. a street-food cart is cash-only, it's not because they can't accept cards (it's rather trivial nowadays) but rather that 1. they don't want to pay the interchange fees, and more importantly, 2. they want to be able to cook their books when reporting rev…

There are businesses that attract people that use cards fraudulently and the business gets flagged demand eventually dropped. Gas stations in less desirable neighborhoods in the US have this issue and some only take cash.
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