The collapse of the econ PhD job market • Hacker News Board

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#251

Post by dotnet00 » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:06 PM UTC

gbacon wrote: post #83

pempem wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some long horizon impact. Really just wildly unfortunate to see a disruption that feels unique. It's not due to war, even if academics could 'flee' to another institution, its a discarding of the prioritization of knowledge generation. The thing humanity has been built on.

This seems like a broad overgeneralization unless you believe zero fat in grad schools is available for trimming.

PhDs are probably the leanest degree for a research school to support.

They don't attend classes after ~2 years, mostly operate independently besides consulting with their advisor, don't take anywhere near a professor's salary, teach or TA classes, act as lab technicians, and bring in money through grants.

The costs are mostly upfront in the form of providing the necessary research facilities to attract research-oriented faculty and students, and the administrative staff needed to ensure compliance with grant terms.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#252

Post by wasabi991011 » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #161

kergonath wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is not continuous and yet we don’t need atoms to predict how a metal sheet will bend. There are a lot of sound theories about how to deal with discontinuity, and how the problem solves itself when numbers get large enough. Or think of it like weather and climate: we cannot predict that there will be a thunderstorm on a given day 2 months from now, but we can be fairly confident that in x years, the average glo…

> Matter is not continuous and yet we don’t need atoms to predict how a metal sheet will bend. At sufficient detail atomic structure has a huge impact on how a metal sheet bends. Metallurgy seriously investigates at this level. Hand waving details is fine when discussing with friends, it’s not a sound foundation for serious academic research. Also, the degree to which the weather is unpredictable 2+ weeks out is some…

> Hand waving details is fine when discussing with friends, it’s not a sound foundation for serious academic research.

It's how physics worked for hundreds of years. Make a handwavy model, find out it works on some cases but breaks down on others, then make a slightly less handwavy model the next time.

Metallurgy considering atomic structure is a very new concept, and was not needed for the first millenias of metalworking.

The issue with economics is not handwaving, is that models are hard to test due to systems not being well isolated.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#253

Post by kelipso » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:24 PM UTC

awesome_dude wrote: post #236

kelipso wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t seem to be able to distinguish between an anecdote on feelings as opposed to anecdote on facts. That’s unfortunate but it’s not something I can help you with. So I will just leave you with your head in the sand.

Please, stop posting false claims and anecdotes. An anecdote is not data, not ever. No matter how you try to spin things, your claim was worth less than the recycled electrons it rode in on.

Now you’re backing up to false claims lol. Seems to me you are clinging on to a hot take that you will do anything to defend. No point in a discussion with you.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#254

Post by kelipso » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:25 PM UTC

reactordev wrote: post #180

kelipso wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s there to discuss any more? There is data that some ridiculous percentage of academics are on the left, and drastically so for liberal arts departments. “Everyone knows” that they filter against conservatives (maybe there isn’t hard data, but it’s pretty obvious to a lot of people, so I would say this is something that need to be disproven, not proven). Liberals deny this, so what’s the point of discussing it.…

Ugh, there is only ignorance and enlightenment. Keep enjoying ignorance.

This is religious thinking.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#255

Post by throw-the-towel » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:28 PM UTC

bdhe wrote: post #206

lvl155 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has everything to do with it considering where things are with current admin. Also why do you think people are sacrificing so much to study in the US? It’s mostly funded. They even get stipends. We are basically paying them to get their degrees here. But you seem to think that they’re doing us a huge favor. What an odd way to think about it.

> We are basically paying them to get their degrees here. If they are the best and brightest of the world and typically stay back and contribute significantly above the median employee to US industry or even start their own companies, why is it framed in such a negative way?

Citation needed on all claims.

What does it even mean to be "the best of the world"? People are not numbers, you cannot just rank them by score!

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#256

Post by lkrubner » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:39 PM UTC

"Ordinary people—who watched their rent, groceries, and gas bills skyrocket—saw a profession more invested in protecting Democratic policy narratives than in telling the truth. The result is a self-inflicted torching of trust."

This post is ridiculously partisan. The head of the Fed was Republican, the majority of the Fed has always been Republican, the money-printing response to the Covid-19 pandemic began in 2020 when the President was a Republican, the majority of all economists are Republican, but somehow this writer blames this on Democrats? The result is a self-inflicted torching of trust.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#257

Post by acdha » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

legostormtroopr wrote: post #199

bikezen wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that it's not filtering for conservatives, but conservatives are self-selecting out or can't cut it at all? Isn't liberal arts degree a literal punchline to so many on the right, yet you cant figure out why that might skew left? > maybe there isn’t hard data, but it’s pretty obvious to a lot of people, so I would say this is something that need to be disproven, not proven Huh, wonder why this worl…

> Have you considered that … conservatives are self-selecting out or can't cut it at all? When the ingroup is underrepresented the question is “how can we get more ingroup in”. But when the outgroup is underrepresented it’s met with “maybe outgroup just isn’t as good”. Eg. women in tech, men in nursing; conservatives vs liberals in academia.

It’s worth thinking about why you’re wrong, because it explains why those comparisons aren’t valid. Modern conservatism is defined by rejecting ideas like objective truth or pluralism which are the core of academia. There’s no way to have conservatives more represented in science when conservatives refuse to allow people who practice science to be part of their movement: you used to be able to find Republicans who wanted to do something about climate change, for example, but anyone who wants to apply scientific principles there now has been purged from the party. Vaccines aren’t quite there yet but it’s trending in that direction and the percentage of doctors who are Republican have been declining since the pandemic.

Contrast that with women in tech or men in nursing and it becomes obvious why the comparison isn’t valid: women want to be good technologists, not to reject the validity of technology or say we should all go back to the Amish lifestyle (that desire is common to senior developers of both genders). Male nurses want to be good nurses, not claiming that their gender means they can commit medical malpractice.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#258

Post by searine » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

elevation wrote: post #233

pempem wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some long horizon impact. Really just wildly unfortunate to see a disruption that feels unique. It's not due to war, even if academics could 'flee' to another institution, its a discarding of the prioritization of knowledge generation. The thing humanity has been built on.

Oddly, the actual threat to knowledge generation? Institutions that absorb societal-scale science budgets while perpetuating systemic fraud. Institutional administrators confiscate 50, 60, 70% of every research grant. Institutions demand published work even when results do not warrant it, and demote professors honest enough to document a null result. The peer review system then rubber stamps papers with no actual rev…

This is anti-intellectual propaganda.

Seriously, 90%? None of what you said is happening at anywhere near that scale. Touch grass.

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#259

Post by gammarator » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 5:16 PM UTC

elevation wrote: post #233

pempem wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is some long horizon impact. Really just wildly unfortunate to see a disruption that feels unique. It's not due to war, even if academics could 'flee' to another institution, its a discarding of the prioritization of knowledge generation. The thing humanity has been built on.

Oddly, the actual threat to knowledge generation? Institutions that absorb societal-scale science budgets while perpetuating systemic fraud. Institutional administrators confiscate 50, 60, 70% of every research grant. Institutions demand published work even when results do not warrant it, and demote professors honest enough to document a null result. The peer review system then rubber stamps papers with no actual rev…

[citation needed]

Re: The collapse of the econ PhD job market

#260

Post by dsjoerg » Sat, Oct 04, 2025, 5:21 PM UTC

lkrubner wrote: post #256

"Ordinary people—who watched their rent, groceries, and gas bills skyrocket—saw a profession more invested in protecting Democratic policy narratives than in telling the truth. The result is a self-inflicted torching of trust." This post is ridiculously partisan. The head of the Fed was Republican, the majority of the Fed has always been Republican, the money-printing response to the Covid-19 pandemic began in 2020 w…

> the majority of all economists are Republican

citation for that please? quick Gemini work gives me the opposite so could you please back that up?

Federal Reserve Economists: A 2022 analysis of voter registration data found the ratio of Democrat to Republican economists at the Federal Reserve System to be 10.4 to 1.

American Economic Association (AEA) Members: Studies have found the D:R ratio among AEA members to be around 4:1 or 3.8:1.

Economics Faculty: One study reported that Democrats outnumber Republicans 4.5:1 among economics faculty at 40 leading universities.

General Survey of Economists: A 2003 survey of American Economic Association members found the voting ratio of Democrat to Republican to be 2.5:1.

https://www.independent.org/tir/2022-fall/political-affiliat...