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Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

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Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#251

Post by bluGill »

ipython wrote: post #228
wongarsu wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'd pay $xxx billion to have a permanent moon base, something Apollo never had. If that can't efforts excite people enough to keep funding flowing I doubt a space station in lunar orbit will move the needle To add another data point: the Chinese lunar program also plans to land humans on the moon and later establish a manned research outpost on the surface. But there don't seem to be any plans for an orbital station…

What does a moon base get us, though? It was cool to get bragging rights by being the first to land and come back - in the ultimate show of “soft power” against the Soviet Union. But a permanent moon base? We can’t even fund the ISS.

Frankly, a moon base might be cool, but nobody has sold me on it is worth having for any other reason. Some smart people have given good arguments that it isn't worth having.

And here I'm sitting in my basement not working on space projects and realizing money spent on space is money I don't have for something else I want (even it is is only $.10 that is still money that adds up).

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#252

Post by lisper »

ashu1461 wrote: post #181
lisper wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with large organizations where once their markets mature, everybody who can build a product end-to-end leaves or gets forced out, leaving only people with highly specialized maintenance skillsets It's not just building a product end-to-end. Tim Cook is a supply-chain guy. He knows how to build a product. What he doesn't know how is how to design a new one. This is the reason that all of the "new" stuff that has com…

Hasn't Tim Apple done his share by releasing apple watch and airpods, which have been good successors to other ancillary products which apple had earlier (ipad / ipod). And right now as well, no laptop comes close to the overall experience that the Mac provides so he has been able to maintain market leadership. Far better than Zuck for whom the only source of innovation has been acquisitions rather than releasing ori…

> apple watch and airpods

Fair point.

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#253

Post by lisper »

jen20 wrote: post #245
lisper wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> with large organizations where once their markets mature, everybody who can build a product end-to-end leaves or gets forced out, leaving only people with highly specialized maintenance skillsets It's not just building a product end-to-end. Tim Cook is a supply-chain guy. He knows how to build a product. What he doesn't know how is how to design a new one. This is the reason that all of the "new" stuff that has com…

> The only thing I can think of that Apple has done in the Cook era that was actually new was the Apple Vision Pro. AirPods and the Apple Watch are also major new product lines, by some accounts each alone bigger than many major technology firms, that were released in the Tim Cook era of Apple.

Fair point.

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#254

Post by UtopiaPunk »

TylerE wrote: post #196
UtopiaPunk wrote: post #98

China recently started building and delivering airplanes. It will be interesting to see if Boeing can actually compete with what is coming out of China over the next few years: https://www.voanews.com/a/7528331.html In the short-term, I imagine USA-based airlines will not be allowed to buy any airplanes from China: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-comac-military-... And perhaps they would not even be allo…

The C919 isn’t even competitive with where Boeing was 20 or 30 years ago.

I'm admittedly very much not an expert in this area. But my post is less about the C919 specifically, and more about China's track record of developing manufacturing processes very rapidly such that they compete on the world market. Specifically I'm thinking of how China is suddenly exporting tons of EVs throughout the world at prices that USA/EU auto-makers can't really compete with. Over 50% of EVs sold in the world are Chinese (and none of those cars are allowed in the USA).

If China decides they want to continue developing and building commercial airplanes, where will they be in 5-10 years? Where will Boeing be?

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#255

Post by jeffbee »

peterhhchan wrote: post #157
jeffbee wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does such a tariff even work? Can't an airline finance all of its aircraft through an entity in the Maldives or whatever?

Airbus had to move production from Quebec to Georgia (US)

Why, though? I am just wondering how it takes effect. The carriers often lease the planes from special-purpose entities. If such an entity is based in Liberia, where does the tariff apply?

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#256

Post by bluGill »

WalterBright wrote: post #217
Denvercoder9 wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no incentive. Passengers rarely know what type they'll be flying on when they book, and prioritize it over price even less. For airlines, a bigger airplane is a distinct disadvantage though, as it's operationally more expensive (increased cross section equals increased drag equals increased fuel burn).

A fully loaded 747 is extremely profitable, the large size has economies of scale. That's why the 747 was very very popular with the airlines. So, yes, a 747 burns more fuel. But the fuel burn per paying passenger is less .

The real issue with the 747 is people will take a point to point route if at all possible. Worse, flying a small plane point to point is cheaper for the passenger than flying 2 747s. If you live in Lincoln NE - sorry your city is too small to get direct flights to anything but close major hubs (even then odds are you drive to nearby Omaha thus further reducing demand options). However if you live in a Larger non-hub city airlines can undercut each other by just doing direct flights to other large non-hub cities.

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#257

Post by flkiwi »

SirHumphrey wrote: post #170
scrlk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this & the Jobs interview - an oil industry proverb: a healthy oil company has a geologist in charge, a mature one has an engineer in charge, a declining one has an accountant in charge, and a dying one has a lawyer in charge.

A bit ironic though because the CEO of Boing during their best years was William McPherson Allen, a lawyer.

One of the most exceptional CEOs I've worked with was a lawyer. I still think the proverb is largely correct, along with the other proverb about the exception proving the rule.

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#258

Post by Onavo »

nostrademons wrote: post #21

It'll be interesting to see if they still can design and build a new ground-up airplane design. The last all-new design was the 787, initiated in 2003 and launched in 2009, and its design was fraught with problems. Before then was the 777 in the early 90s (pre-McDonnell takeover), and the 757/767 in the early 80s. There's a phenomena that ofter occurs with large organizations where once their markets mature, everybod…

What problems were there with the 787? IIRC it was the first major composite airliner and they had the advantage of hoovering up all the unemployed post Berlin Wall cream of the crop Soviet aerodynamicists to work on it for them.

https://www.nytimes.com/2001/05/26/business/boeing-s-russian...

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#259

Post by Arch-TK »

zdw wrote: post #197
davidkwast wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nokia is the best case study of what not to do. In 2005 Nokia launched the 770 Internet Tablet. It was the groundwork for the modern smartphone. But the management did not allow it to have a GSM modem. So it was not a smartphone. Only after the iPhone Nokia launched the N900 but it was too late. Nokia did not believe in touch screen too.

The 770 and Maemo environment were pretty amazing back in the day - high resolution screen for the time, but a somewhat laggy interface given the compute available at the time. Hardware was somewhat compromised - the half-height MMC storage expansion was particularly difficult to find. I still have one sitting around somewhere. It did support touch, with a stylus built in - I forget if the stylus was needed or if you…

If the 770 was anything like the N900 then the screen was resistive and the stylus was passive. So you could use your fingers but in my experience, for any finer task, you needed the stylus.

Damn, I really miss the N900. I was seriously using it as recently as about 4-5 years ago.

Re: Boeing has started working on a 737 MAX replacement

#260

Post by whycome »

nostrademons wrote: post #21

It'll be interesting to see if they still can design and build a new ground-up airplane design. The last all-new design was the 787, initiated in 2003 and launched in 2009, and its design was fraught with problems. Before then was the 777 in the early 90s (pre-McDonnell takeover), and the 757/767 in the early 80s. There's a phenomena that ofter occurs with large organizations where once their markets mature, everybod…

Does this also apply to Apollo?
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