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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#252

Post by shirro »

I don't remember having "range anxiety" under S3 suspend on my old intel laptops. It just worked and they woke up reasonably reliably and quickly under linux if you had a regular thin and light with integrated graphics. I had an Apple intel laptop that might have been marginally faster returning to life but it basically just worked on either.

The move to modern standby has been a mess. It seems to have improved a lot but my kid always shuts down his windows laptop before putting it in a bag because it seems to have become urban folklore that laptops turn on in bags, overheat and get damaged. That is new. I carried laptops in bags suspended for years and nobody thought that. It just worked.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#253

Post by mistercheph »

didacusc wrote: post #22
cardanome wrote: post #8

As a Linux user I feel you. The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world (for power users) but the hardware is so, so good. For me it is about having a completely silent setup. It is so, so hard to go back to noisy fans. I really hope Asahi Linux keep going so I can have the best of both worlds.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

Yeah, and my fisher price car is a lot easier for my 3 year old to drive than my car.

Sometimes powerful tools need sophisticated users that have time to invest in learning to use the tool. "Inferior" might depend on who is trying to accomplish what, but it's hard to argue that if you're trying to do or build the most sophisticated and cutting edge things that computers are capable of doing, you probably don't want to be using macOS or window.

That doesn't mean that it doesn't work marvelously when you have 0 time to invest in learning to use your computer, and all you want is to access web applications and manage a few files on a screen bigger than your smartphone and with a physical keyboard.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#254

Post by heavyset_go »

hbn wrote: post #241
heavyset_go wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are your relatives doing? If they're like 95% of computer users, they use them to check their email, their FB/IG/etc and browse the web. A Chromebook would suit their needs, but in my experience, so would a modern Linux installation + a browser. The biggest friction in my experience is UI differences, but that is solved by just mimicking Windows/macOS UI in KDE. Put buttons and components where they expect to fi…

You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800. You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting, it'll last them the better part of a decade, they get unmatched battery life and hardware reliability, and if they do run into issues they'll have top-of-its-class support from Apple. I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be d…

> You can also just tell them to get an M2 MacBook Air for $800

Yes, you will find that most material problems can be solved by buying more stuff. If they wanted to buy a new laptop, they would have done that.

> You'll have to do near zero troubleshooting

That's the case now.

Meanwhile, with the Macs they use, I have to explain that there's a difference between Intel and ARM Macs, that no, their software won't work in MACOS_VERSION because Apple deprecated some API, and no, you can't upgrade to MACOS_VERSION+1 to use something that works, no the hardware they've been using for years won't work because the driver for it is no longer compatible with their Mac/macOS version, the simple thing they want to do actually requires $30 paid software to do, I can't help you when Apple sold you a small hard drive at a premium and macOS takes up half of it, etc.

> I know Linux guys don't mind putting up with the Linux experience but if your family is trusting you as "the techie," you'd be doing them a huge favor by not making them put up with that stuff

Yeah, having a fast computer that just works must be tough lol

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#255

Post by _kulang »

shirro wrote: post #252

I don't remember having "range anxiety" under S3 suspend on my old intel laptops. It just worked and they woke up reasonably reliably and quickly under linux if you had a regular thin and light with integrated graphics. I had an Apple intel laptop that might have been marginally faster returning to life but it basically just worked on either. The move to modern standby has been a mess. It seems to have improved a lot…

I’ve certainly had that particularly with older Dell XPS computers. So has Linus at LTT, which I suppose how it entered folklore.

I say this as my lab mate had his laptop do exactly that just last week, with up to date windows and a newer XPS laptop. It simply has never happened to my Macs

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#256

Post by chis »

999900000999 wrote: post #87

I want to love framework, and I really do want to get behind their mission, but a few things stand out. First and this is the elephant in the room, it's probably better for the environment to buy a refurbished think pad. The most environmentally friendly product is one that gets reused instead of going to a landfill. The 13-in framework only offers one SSD slot, The expansion Bay offers a nice storage option but thes…

I spent a ton of time researching this. I wasn’t able to find any thinkpads that are relatively lightweight, have a hi res screen, and new CPUs for even close to the price of the framework 13 which can be purchased with a reasonable spec for less than $1100.

It’s entirely possible that I missed one. But honestly that also makes me root more for framework - just sell me one high quality product instead of offering 40 models, some of which are shit, half of which are so niche they don’t even get a proper review anywhere.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#257

Post by notpushkin »

shirro wrote: post #252

I don't remember having "range anxiety" under S3 suspend on my old intel laptops. It just worked and they woke up reasonably reliably and quickly under linux if you had a regular thin and light with integrated graphics. I had an Apple intel laptop that might have been marginally faster returning to life but it basically just worked on either. The move to modern standby has been a mess. It seems to have improved a lot…

Modern standby is a disaster.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#259

Post by QuercusMax »

Havoc wrote: post #258

Are people away from power sources that often? Don’t think I’ve thought about battery level on my work (windows) laptop once. Home, office, conference rooms - everything has usb C docks

When I used to commute via company bus in the bay area, it mattered to me; also when I'm using my laptop out and about in the city, I'd prefer not to have to worry about finding a seat with a charger.

Of course, nowadays power banks are getting so cheap and lightweight, I just toss a couple in my bag, and don't really worry about it. I just ordered one of the Haribo power banks all the backpackers are raving about.

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