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How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

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Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#251

Post by closewith »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #244
closewith wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 50-60 is fine on that road, indeed given the traffic and sight lines it’s far better than the majority of roads, Well, given its current speed limit is 60mi/h and its current situation, both in terms of road safety and use by vulnerable road users, is abysmal, I think it's safe to safe you're incorrect. A competent driver should be able to navigate that road at 60 or 80 km/h if it was a closed or private road, but…

Total nonsense, the problem int got road is people speeding. Ie doing 80, 90, 100, and people doing g 69 when the limits do decrease. You should stick to trains and buses. You do 20mph along there and quite rightly the police would have your license.

No, it's fact-based. But it doesn't conform to your preferences, so you'll not be convinced without more life experience.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#252

Post by protocolture »

IneffablePigeon wrote: post #164
protocolture wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean in terms of driver visibility, you can absolutely improve that. My forward camera is below a toddlers head height and fisheyed like no ones business. And thats before the sensors. The question of IF a collision occurs, will the larger car do more damage, obviously it will. Well maybe not obviously, if the sensors are throwing on my breaks earlier than I can react there can be substantially less energy on that…

A camera is no substitute for actual visibility, at best it’s a mediocre workaround to the problem. There is no evidence at all that I’ve seen that there are fewer pedestrian collisions in modern large vehicles - I would be interested if you have any such data. Regardless, all of these “extreme measures” could be applied to a smaller car (or even just one with a smaller wall at the front) for the best of both worlds.…

I mean, the risk was already socially acceptable, and it has further been reduced as far as practicable.

>A camera is no substitute for actual visibility

I dont even know what point you are trying to make here. Seeing things a different way is not seeing things? Make it make sense.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#253

Post by jonplackett »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #154
tbossanova wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I remember being driven around roads like this with a friend with a high performance car who knew what he was doing, so could go what seemed like a terrifyingly high speed to me, but was perfectly safe for him. Then we hit some other cars going slower and he just followed at the same speed, infinitely patient for someone with a thirst for speed. Just completely happy to adjust to the appropriate speed for the si…

People who know those roads drive fast, indeed, but it is not safe. Visibility is poor and you cannot safely go through a bend at 50+ mph when you cannot see what's beyond it. There might be a stationary vehicle, a horse, a cyclists, even a pedestrian and you wouldn't know or be able to stop in time. This is how lethal collisions happen in those roads.

Exactly. All these people saying ‘well I know the road’.

Yeah you know THE ROAD not what might be in it this morning.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#254

Post by inferiorhuman »

kimixa wrote: post #250
rkomorn wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your CA adults requirements do not match what I experienced in 2005, aside from passing the knowledge test. Maybe that's changed a lot in 20 years.

It also doesn't match what I experienced in 2015, though having a foreign driver's license may have skipped some of the requirements (though they never actually asked for for it when getting my provisional license, they might have just assumed?), the actual testing felt like a joke compared to the equivalent in the UK.

I've had a CA license for going on three decades and they largely match what I had to do. And, yes, paperwork was checked as far as driver's ed. and whatnot. Regardless. The current requirements are all spelled out fairly clearly:

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification...

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#255

Post by Hilift »

graemep wrote: post #225
wwqrd wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

per capita is a bit weird, maybe people in the UK don't drive as much.

Less than in the US, but I imagine similar to the other European countries. One thing that is not being discussed is that cars have become a lot wafer - for both people in the car and for pedestrians they might hit.

The US is a mobility and automobile obsessed society. Walking and cycling are usually associated with exercise or inability to drive due to lack of resources.

Combine that with an obsession to make cars available to anyone, even if they are known dangerous. Look up videos on YouTube of police pursuits in Florida, Georgia, Arkansas, Michigan. Those aren't exceptions, they are glimpses into a mass pathology. I believe Madison, Wisconsin was tracking multiple police pursuits per day in recent years. The subjects there frequently and deliberately drive on the wrong side of roads to compel the police to terminate the pursuits.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#256

Post by GJim »

andrepd wrote: post #126
gambiting wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in the UK for over 15 years now and I still can't get over people's general allergy for using indicators. And I know the test and training specifically tell you that you must use indicators when changing lanes and turning, but if I had a penny for every time I see someone on the motorway changing lanes without indicating I'd make a very good middle class salary from that alone. But yes, other than this peo…

30mph is an unsafe speed for towns or anywhere where cars coexist with pedestrians or bikes.

The "experiment" in Wales has proven what a disaster reducing this speed was.

Urban area limits are now being raised back to 30 mph.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#257

Post by spacedcowboy »

silisili wrote: post #172
philjohn wrote: post #48

Our driving test standards are also high, having spoken with US colleagues, much higher than state-side (although I imagine that varies from state to state). The theory test you must pass before taking your practical also now includes a hazard perception test - you are shown multiple videos and must click when you first perceive a hazard - the earlier you click after the hazard presents the higher your score - but if…

I live in the US in a town with particularly bad drivers. I know I know, everyone's area has the worst drivers. But I've lived in dozen cities across the US so have some frame of reference. The sad thing is, it's a small town with what -should- be little traffic. It's one of those places there will only be 2 other cars in sight, but they're driving side by side and 10 under the speed limit. And for some reason, every…

Can confirm that 6 right turns from getting into the car, comprising a single trip around the block was the full extent of my San Jose, CA driving test.

I left the DMV office significantly more scared of my fellow drivers than I had arrived…

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#258

Post by gambiting »

GJim wrote: post #256
andrepd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

30mph is an unsafe speed for towns or anywhere where cars coexist with pedestrians or bikes.

The "experiment" in Wales has proven what a disaster reducing this speed was. Urban area limits are now being raised back to 30 mph.

What are you talking about - the Wales experiment as you called it has clearly shown it's a good idea - I wish it was implemented everywhere now and the numbers clearly support it. It's only being raised back up to 30 in areas where

1) the data suggests no improvement(which was always the intention of the change)

2) the issue became political and the limits are raised no matter what the data says

Overall for Wales the improvement in safety has been undeniable though and it's hard to disagree with it.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#259

Post by 2dvisio »

jajko wrote: post #222
2dvisio wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, though an intensive one (8500km in 6 weeks) that is just subjective experience, which is why I caveated it mentioning that it was our own family personal experience. I lived in a mountainous area of Italy (very narrow roads, full of ups and downs) so I am a fairly confident driver (probably why I was not too stressed driving in Italy) and drove in countries like India and Iran in the past (so very familiar and…

Not complaining about not having yet another car on the roads here, but your conclusion goes directly against experience of literally every single person living here in Europe for their whole lives that I know. Especially Switzerland, apart from italian-speaking part of Ticino (which is more Italy than Switzerland), people drive well and way above Europe's average. Also Switzerland has 120kmh speed limit, making road…

Have agreed in previous comments that this was subjective (as a family but also as a driver) experience.

Maybe one thing that amplified the effect was the high expectations we had for those highways, and maybe that's what made it more shocking for us.

Again, I consider myself a 'decently skilled' driver, having driven in many countries over the course of the years, and easily adapting to driving styles (US/Italy/France/Iran/UK/India/etc). Some of these styles are indeed chaotic, but they (generally) operate at slower speed, which allow for corrections and precautions. The thing that threw us off is the combination I have mentioned before:

> [...] the speed that those roads allow. The style was quite aggressive, very fast in every lane, loads of overtakes (car constantly zig-zagging), people coming from the back _FAST_ and staying there, people switching lanes immediately after signalling rather than giving some time for people to notice. Overall, that combination made for a very stressful experience which we have agreed (as family) not to repeat in the future.

Re: How Britain built some of the world’s safest roads

#260

Post by fragmede »

hnlmorg wrote: post #162
sas224dbm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A favorite past-time back in the day was driving at night from pub to pub along the 'back roads' (B-roads specifically in the UK) as fast as 'possible'. There were typically no street lights, however lights from other vehicles showed up alerting you to any possible danger. It was fun at the time, but i wouldn't do it now .. lol ..

That’s great just so long as your county roads doesn’t have any dog walkers or wildlife like deer. The best case scenario then, is that you write off your car with a deer shaped hole in the front. The worst case scenario is you have a death on your conscience for the rest of your life.

If you're walking in the middle of the street in the middle of the night, in the middle of the woods, with no reflective clothing, and I hit you, it's your fault. I know how fast I'm driving. I can live with that.
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