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Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

nytimes.com

251–260 of 278 posts

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So yes, the US military was literally created to fight the Islamic terrorism of its day. That is not propaganda, that is historical fact. I mean, you're bending the truth a little. The US Navy was created to fight thieves and murderers on ships, who happened to be Muslim . There was no ideological component to the conflict. That someone can cite a passage from a book to justify robbing you doesn't mean that his robb…

> That someone can cite a passage from a book to justify robbing you doesn't mean that his robbing you is inspired by the book. I'm sorry, what? I literally don't follow. If someone robs my home because of what it says to do in an unquestionable book that they've been raised on, how is that not literally inspired by the book ? This is nonsense. People do things all the time (good and bad) because of what they believe…

>If someone robs my home because of what it says to do in an unquestionable book that they've been raised on, how is that not literally inspired by the book?

Yes, if I beg the question, I also can reach any conclusion I like. But someone doesn't rob because of what any book says. They rob you because they want what you have and they think they can get away with it. I assure you, if you put a sign on the front of the house saying "beware of the leopard" and the robber hears growling noises coming from inside, he will not rob you, no matter how righteous his unquestionable book says robbing you is.

(If he does, then I'll grant you in such a case there's an ideological component to it.)

>People do things all the time (good and bad) because of what they believe is true in books.

That's not how human nature works. It's not like before Muhammad came around pillaging didn't exist. What do you think vikings were, or the sea peoples? I haven't read the passage, and I don't need to. It doesn't matter what it says. The Old Testament says that Hebrews could take slaves from their neighboring nations. Leviticus didn't invent slavery. All the book did was condone a practice that already existed. At the most what the passage did was let people feel better about what they were doing (and we know they knew slavery was awful, because they had different practices for the in-group than for the out-group), if nothing else because their own countrymen would not punish them for it.

Take everything I said about the Hebrews and apply it to the Muslim pirates.

>I mean... Trepanation? Bloodletting? Countless other things that were believed to be true, were acted on because of that, but were actually wrong?

Now you're just conflating things. Trepanation and bloodletting were performed because it was mistakenly believed they would help the patient. Someone who enslaves you, robs you, or murders you because his holy book tells him is the righteous thing to do is under no mistaken impression that he's doing you a favor.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#252
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if you just abort the mission? Probably nothing, and certainly doing nothing is less likely to provoke war and further escalation than murdering civilians, hoping no one notices, and then having a front page NY Times article published about it later If North Korean spies murdered fisherman off the coast of California on a failed mission, you bet there would be blowback If they were simply noticed, the US…

That's one way to assess it. Can you take the cost if your presence is detected? Maybe nothing happens. How likely is nothing? And if your presence finds it ways to the authorities, what's the cost? Likely, NK will patch what might be your best chance at advance warning. As fishing is dangerous and many never return, their plausibly 'accidental' deaths provide cover to keep the secrecy and your future access intact.…

They’re detected now. Right now. Front page of the NY Times. The murders didn’t do shit.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#253
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is both not true and not what is in the book.

The focus is the drugs and domestic murders, but JSOC's practices are detailed (daily night raids, low threshold for targeting, low accuracy) and give background to how everyone involved became so broken.

Which is not even in the same ballpark as what you originally wrote.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have a link handy, but I recall seeing on YT a clip of Luttrell basically outright stating that the Navy "handed him the book pre-written" in an interview.

I'd get to steppin' and find it. Compelling statements need compelling sources.

Not OP, but here:

https://youtu.be/yZ6mgltPclk

And the other Valhalla VFT one, and the Team House podcast, and just all over the place…

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#256
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How dare you suggest Putin is not doing things because he’s just crazy and wants to take over Europe??

If I was a superpower I would just be really nice and have good policy so that people wanted to join my country I am not sure why none of the big three have put this into practice yet

Isn’t that what the EU is doing? Getting counties to join them by being nice

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my best understanding as well. I have watched a lot of ex-special forces guys on YT. Needless to say, I take it all with massive grains of salt, including the claim that they were even SF in the first place. However, they all describe the selection processes similarly. And, my educated assumption is that this part is probably too dull for them to lie about, much less lie about in unison across many accounts a…

> I have watched a lot of ex-special forces guys on YT. What specific channels would you recommend?

MrBallen.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#258

If you can stomach the bravado and unclear factual accuracy, the 2007 book Lone Survivor gives an account of a similar failure, in Afghanistan, where a SEAL team was discovered early in their mission. But, it devolved into a running battle and a disaster for the US special forces where most of the team and many rescuers also died. As a result of those prior events, I can imagine they have different rules of engagemen…

Another thing we could do is watch the documentary 300 to learn about how the Spartans fought off Xerxes.

I can’t tell if this is subtle dry humour or serious.

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#259
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have watched a lot of ex-special forces guys on YT. > Needless to say, I take it all with massive grains of salt I think it needs to be said that people who choose those careers are probably one of the worst kinds of people. They choose to use their unique, advantageous talents to murder people on command. And then you select out of those the ones that think being interviewed on YouTube about that is a good idea.…

> I think it needs to be said that people who choose those careers are probably one of the worst kinds of people. I’m guessing you’ve never met any special operations people, much less folks from the SMUs. I have met many. 100% A+ people. I’m sure there are bad apples, but I’ve never met one. > They choose to use their unique, advantageous talents to murder people on command. Rules of engagement are a thing — a very…

thoughts on Murder of Logan Melgar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Logan_Melgar

Re: Navy SEALs reportedly killed North Korean fishermen to hide a failed mission

#260
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have watched a lot of ex-special forces guys on YT. > Needless to say, I take it all with massive grains of salt I think it needs to be said that people who choose those careers are probably one of the worst kinds of people. They choose to use their unique, advantageous talents to murder people on command. And then you select out of those the ones that think being interviewed on YouTube about that is a good idea.…

> I think it needs to be said that people who choose those careers are probably one of the worst kinds of people. I’m guessing you’ve never met any special operations people, much less folks from the SMUs. I have met many. 100% A+ people. I’m sure there are bad apples, but I’ve never met one. > They choose to use their unique, advantageous talents to murder people on command. Rules of engagement are a thing — a very…

I'd literally prefer to meet a leper or a LLM model strapped to a snake.
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