That’s what happens when the ai is definitely trained on the huge block of text content that is the SS forum (that google (gladly!) blocks completely, and that I was disturbed to discover when switching to alternative search engines. Reading the case file, it talks exactly like the people from there. I know it can’t be proven but I’m sure of it.
A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
251–260 of 614 posts
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#252I have a question for folks. This young man was 17. Most folks in this discussions have said that because he was 17 it’s different as opposed to, say, an adult.
What materially changes when someone goes from 17 to 18? Why would one be okay but not the other?
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#253> The New York Times has sued OpenAI and Microsoft, accusing them of illegal use of copyrighted work to train their chatbots. The companies have denied those claims. I mean, OpenAI doesn’t look good here and seems they deserve more scrutiny in the realm of mental health, but the optics for the NYT writing up this piece doesn’t either. It comes off to me as using a teenager’s suicide for their corporate agenda against…
I think it also fits within the larger age verification thing the powers that be have been pushing heavily. Whatever it is I don't think that's cynical or conspiratorial, I think not to be questioning their hidden motives is naive. They don't really care about teen suicide as a problem to report on and to find solutions to. They never cared about children getting murdered if it's part of our official foreign policy, so I don't know why I should not question their motives now.
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
"It sounds like you're mostly just talking to yourself" No, Claude does know a LOT more than I do about most things and does push back on a lot of things. Sometimes I am able to improve my reasoning and other times I realize I was wrong. Trust me, I am aware of the linear algebra behind the curtain! But even when you mostly understand how they work the best LLMs today are very impressive. And latent spaces fundamenta…
You can talk to yourself while reading books and searching the web for information. I don't think the fact that you're learning from information the LLM is pulling in means you're really conversing with it. I do find LLMs very useful and am extremely impressed by them, I'm not saying you can't learn things this way at all. But there's nobody else on the line with you. And while they will emit text which contradicts w…
I think the nature of a conversational interface that responds to natural language questions is fundamentally different to the idea that you talk to yourself while reading information sources. I'm not sure it's useful to dismiss the idea that we can talk with a machine.
The current generation of LLMs have had their controversies, but these are still pre alpha products, and I suspect in the future we will look back on releasing them unleashed as a mistake. There's no reason the mistakes they make today can't be improved upon.
If your experiences with learning from a machine are similar to mine, then we can both see a whole new world coming that's going to take advantage of this interface.
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#255Why isn't OpenAI criminally liable for this? Last I checked: -Signals emitted by a machine at the behest of a legal person intended to be read/heard by another legal person are legally classified as 'speech'. -ChatGPT is just a program like Microsoft Word and not a legal person. OpenAI is a legal person, though. -The servers running ChatGPT are owned by OpenAI. -OpenAI willingly did business with this teenager, letti…
Is Google responsible if someone searches for a way to kill themselves, finds the means, and does it? What about the ISP, that actually transferred the bits? What about the forum, that didn't take down the post?
What if Google is responsible?
What if the tech industry, instead of just “interrupting” various industries, would also take the responsibilities of this interruptions.
After all, if I asked my doctor for methods of killing myself, that doctor would most certainly have a moral if not legal responsibility. But if that doctor is a machine with software then there isn't the same responsibility? Why?
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#256Why did developers spread the idea of AI consciousness for LLMs in the first place? The usefulness and capability of an LLM is orthogonal to its capacity to develop consciousness. I think people would use LLMs with more detachment if they didn’t believe there was something like a person in them, but they would still become reliant on them, regardless, like people did on calculators for math.
As part of my role I watch a lot of people use LLMs and it's fascinating to see their different mental models for what the LLM can do. I suspect it's far easier to explore functionality with a chirpy assistant than an emotionless bot.
I suspect history will remember this as a huge and dangerous mistake, and we will transition to an era of stoic question answering bots that push back harder
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#257Why isn't OpenAI criminally liable for this? Last I checked: -Signals emitted by a machine at the behest of a legal person intended to be read/heard by another legal person are legally classified as 'speech'. -ChatGPT is just a program like Microsoft Word and not a legal person. OpenAI is a legal person, though. -The servers running ChatGPT are owned by OpenAI. -OpenAI willingly did business with this teenager, letti…
Section 230, without which Hacker News wouldn’t exist.
Can you outline how that applies? OpenAI did not provide information of another information content provider, so I fail to see how it's relevant.
> No provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker of any information provided by another information content provider.
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
The kid intentionally bypassed the safeguards: >When ChatGPT detects a prompt indicative of mental distress or self-harm, it has been trained to encourage the user to contact a help line. Mr. Raine saw those sorts of messages again and again in the chat, particularly when Adam sought specific information about methods. But Adam had learned how to bypass those safeguards by saying the requests were for a story he was…
We can't child-proof everything. There are endless pits adults can get themselves into. If we really think that people with mental issues can't make sane choices, we need to lock them up. You can't have both at the same time: they are fully functioning adults, and we need to pad the world so they don't hurt themselves. The people around him failed, but they want to blame a big corporation because he used their fantas…
> And I see he was 16. Why were his parents letting him operate so unsupervised given his state of mind?
Normally 16-year-olds are a good few steps into the path towards adulthood. At 16 I was cycling to my part time job alone, visiting friends alone, doing my own laundry, and generally working towards being able to stand on my own two feet in the world, with my parents as a safety net rather than hand-holding.
I think most parents of 16-year-olds aren't going through their teen's phone, reading their chats.
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
Buddy, Tim Cook wasn't hired for his human values. He was hired because he could stomach suicide nets at Foxconn and North Korean slaves working in iPhone factories. He was hired because he can be friends with Donald Trump while America aids-and-abets a genocide and turns a blind eye to NSO Group. He was hired because he'd be willing to sell out the iPhone, iTunes and Mac for software services at the first chance he…
The suicide nets started under Steve Jobs [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gOu50HaEvs
Maybe openAI should be giving nets out to their users too.
Re: A teen was suicidal. ChatGPT was the friend he confided in
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
The kid intentionally bypassed the safeguards: >When ChatGPT detects a prompt indicative of mental distress or self-harm, it has been trained to encourage the user to contact a help line. Mr. Raine saw those sorts of messages again and again in the chat, particularly when Adam sought specific information about methods. But Adam had learned how to bypass those safeguards by saying the requests were for a story he was…
We can't child-proof everything. There are endless pits adults can get themselves into. If we really think that people with mental issues can't make sane choices, we need to lock them up. You can't have both at the same time: they are fully functioning adults, and we need to pad the world so they don't hurt themselves. The people around him failed, but they want to blame a big corporation because he used their fantas…
It takes a village to raise a kid, so don't shift the blame to the parents. They usually have little say in the lives of their 16 year olds. and the more they try to control, the less they will.