Live data from Hacker News

Why are there so many rationalist cults?

asteriskmag.com

251–260 of 947 posts

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#251
post #231

It's amphetamine. All of these people are constantly tweaking. They're annoying people to begin with, but they're all constantly yakked up and won't stop babbling. It's really obvious, I don't know why it isn't highlighted more in all these post Ziz articles.

How do you know?

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#252

One of a few issues I have with groups like these, is that they often confidently and aggressively spew a set of beliefs that on their face logically follow from one another, until you realize they are built on a set of axioms that are either entirely untested or outright nonsense. This is common everywhere, but I feel especially pronounced in communities like this. It also involves quite a bit of navel gazing that m…

"Cherish those who seek the truth but beware of those who find it" - Voltaire

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that doesn't say anything about why one particular social scene would spawn a bunch of cults while others do not, which is the question that the article is trying to answer.

Maybe I was too vague. My argument is that cults need a secret. The secret of the rationalist community is "nobody is rational except for us". Then the rituals would be endless probability/math/logic arguments about sci-fi futures.

I think the promise of secret knowledge is important, but I think cults also need a second thing: "That thing you fear? You're right to fear it, and only we can protect you from it. If you don't do what we say, it's going to be so much worse than it is now, but if you do, everything will be good and perfect."

In the rationalist cults, you typically have the fear of death and non-existence, coupled with the promise of AGI, the Singularity and immortality, weighed against the AI Apocalypse.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#255
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her books were very popular with the gifted kids I hung out with in the late 80s. Cool kids would carry around hardback copies of Atlas Shrugged, impressive by the sheer physical size and art deco cover. How did that trend begin?

People reading the book and being into it and telling other people. It’s also a hard book to read so it may be smart kids trying to signal being smart.

It’s hard to read because it’s tedious not because you need to be smart though.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#256
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't originally write this, but can't find the original place I read it anymore. I think it makes a lot of sense to repost it here: All of the World Of Darkness and Chronicles Of Darkness games are basically about coming of age/puberty. Like X-Men but for Goth-Nerds instead of Geek-Nerds. In Vampire, your body is going through weird changes and you are starting to develop, physically and/or mentally, while realis…

This tracks, but I'd say Werewolf goes beyond LGBT folks, the violence there also fits the boy's aggressive play and the saving the world theme resonated a lot with the basic "i want to be important/hero" thing. Its my favorite of all world of darkness books, i regret not getting the kickstarter edition :(

Yeah, I would say Werewolf is more like Social Activist: The Rage simulator than LGBT teenager

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#257

One of a few issues I have with groups like these, is that they often confidently and aggressively spew a set of beliefs that on their face logically follow from one another, until you realize they are built on a set of axioms that are either entirely untested or outright nonsense. This is common everywhere, but I feel especially pronounced in communities like this. It also involves quite a bit of navel gazing that m…

There should be an extremist cult of people who are certain only that uncertainty is the only certain thing

Socrates was fairly close to that.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be an extremist cult of people who are certain only that uncertainty is the only certain thing

What makes you so certain there isn't? A group that has a deep understanding fnord of uncertainty would probably like to work behind the scenes to achieve their goals.

The Fnords do keep a lower profile.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#259
post #187

One of a few issues I have with groups like these, is that they often confidently and aggressively spew a set of beliefs that on their face logically follow from one another, until you realize they are built on a set of axioms that are either entirely untested or outright nonsense. This is common everywhere, but I feel especially pronounced in communities like this. It also involves quite a bit of navel gazing that m…

I don’t think it’s just (or even particularly) bad axioms, I think it’s that people tend to build up “logical” conclusions where they think each step is a watertight necessity that follows inevitably from its antecedents, but actually each step is a little bit leaky, leading to runaway growth in false confidence. Not that non-rationalists are any better at reasoning, but non-rationalists do at least benefit from some…

> Not that non-rationalists are any better at reasoning, but non-rationalists do at least benefit from some intellectual humility.

Non-rationalists are forced to use their physical senses more often because they can't follow the chain of logic as far. This is to their advantage. Empiricism > rationalism.

Re: Why are there so many rationalist cults?

#260

Thinking too hard about anything will drive you insane but I think the real issue here is that rationalists simply over-estimate both the power of rational thought and their ability to do it. If you think of people who tend to make that kind of mistake you can see how you get a lot of crazy groups. I guess I'm a radical skeptic, secular humanist, utilitarianish sort of guy, but I'm not dumb enough to think throwing a…

People find academic philosophy impenetrable and pretentious, but it has two major advantages over rationalist cargo cults. The first is diffusion of power. Social media is powered by charisma, and while it is certainly true that personality-based cults are nothing new, the internet makes it way easier to form one. Contrast that with academic philosophy. People can have their own little fiefdoms, and there is certain…

> True skepticism has to start with questioning one's self, but everybody seems to skip that part and go right to questioning everybody else.

Nuh-uh! Eliezer Yudkowsky wrote that his mother made this mistake, so he's made sure to say things in the right order for the reader not to make this mistake. Therefore, true Rationalists™ are immune to this mistake. https://www.readthesequences.com/Knowing-About-Biases-Can-Hu...

Post reply on HN