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I tried Servo

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Re: I tried Servo

#251

Post by rollcat »

yencabulator wrote: post #248
rollcat wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many many factors to consider. Simplistic take: KHTML was picked up by Apple because of its clean design and codebase; there's an extra 30 years of accumulated improvements in C++; you don't write stuff in Rust 1.0 either. Also: Andreas has worked on Webkit/Blink. He knew what he was doing when he started the project, even if it was "just for fun". Linux started under similar circumstances.

Linux started under circumstances of Linus wanting to learn 386 assembler. He got two processes writing alternating As and Bs to demonstrate 386 multitasking. Linus had to find SunOS docs etc to copy system call signatures from. It's truly an accidental success story, and while Linus is smart & capable he sure as hell did not "know what he was doing", the whole point was to learn and fiddle with it. Starting a new br…

Torvalds had his debate with prof. Tanenbaum (a specialist in OS research), stuck with his own opinions, and achieved an extraordinary success, continuing as a technical project leader and architect for 35+ years and counting. It's circumstantial, but not accidental.

Re: I tried Servo

#252

Post by freddex »

galangalalgol wrote: post #213
YmiYugy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last 24h alone Chromium merged almost 900 CLs (their equivalent to a pull request) into the src/Chromium repo, Ladybird had 7. Yes a project that started fresh a couple of year ago with decades of hindsight can be more efficient than one started 16 year ago as the fork of a fork, but if I had to guess they'll sooner or later reach a point where they have implemented the low hanging fruit and chromium moves fas…

I'm not even proximal to webdev, can someone explain why people keep making pages using new stuff? I get why google keeps adding things, but why do people use it? Well over half the pages I go to look better without js. HN looks identical.

Many of the newer standards added to the web platform boil down to supporting development of web apps, not only web pages. For example, the current iteration of the File System API in Chrome (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/File_System...) allows web apps to request permission to read and write to the user's file system. This is great for many tools.

Of course, this can be fairly controversial: More app-like capabilities lead to more complex standards and harder-to-secure browsers. There's also overengineering where people use web app techniques to develop web pages. You don't need (much) JS or even any of the new standards for HN, but for something like Google Docs or Figma, it's a different story.

Re: I tried Servo

#253

Post by zavec »

goku12 wrote: post #185
godshatter wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Mozilla decides to dump Gecko, then it's time for a hard fork and an abandonment of Mozilla. Maybe it's time now. edit: I mean dumping Gecko for Chromium, not Servo.

Honestly, dumping gecko would be a suicide for Firefox. Much of Firefox's minuscule userbase consists of knowledgeable nerds who are holdouts from the Blink monoculture.

My main concern is manifest v3, I would be incredibly annoyed if I had to switch to a browser that broke ublock.

Re: I tried Servo

#254

Post by codethief »

zozbot234 wrote: post #160
jm4 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Found it! It was on a podcast: https://changelog.com/podcast/604 Here are some key quotes: "something that matters to us a lot is OO. Web specs & browser internals tend to be highly object-oriented, and life is easier when you can model specs closely in your code." "So what I’ve done is I’ve asked a bunch of people to “Please implement these things in a couple of different languages. And then we can talk about how th…

> This ‘90s API, and it set the core of the web stack. And it’s super object-oriented, and it’s just hard to express all that stuff in Rust, because Rust doesn’t lend itself to object-oriented programming. It doesn’t have inheritance, for example, which is a very fundamental building block. That's a rather strange criticism, seeing as the only thing about objects that's slightly involved to express in Rust is impleme…

> I.e. expressing a class that can be inherited from as a generic object MyBaseClass, where T holds the "derived" object state (and can itself be generic in turn, thereby extending the type hierarchy)

Interesting approach! Have you used this in larger project (i.e. for a larger type hierarchy)?

I suspect it might at least take some getting used to (readability-wise), plus it might lead to additional boilerplate in case some child "classes" only want to override some methods, but not others. (The parent will have to implement some switching logic.)

Overall I agree, though, I can't think of any OOP use case that could not be covered by this.

Re: I tried Servo

#255

Post by qingcharles »

galangalalgol wrote: post #213
YmiYugy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last 24h alone Chromium merged almost 900 CLs (their equivalent to a pull request) into the src/Chromium repo, Ladybird had 7. Yes a project that started fresh a couple of year ago with decades of hindsight can be more efficient than one started 16 year ago as the fork of a fork, but if I had to guess they'll sooner or later reach a point where they have implemented the low hanging fruit and chromium moves fas…

I'm not even proximal to webdev, can someone explain why people keep making pages using new stuff? I get why google keeps adding things, but why do people use it? Well over half the pages I go to look better without js. HN looks identical.

A lot of the new stuff added to CSS in the last few years has allowed web devs to vastly reduce the amount of JavaScript and HTML cruft in our pages and make them much more semantic and accessible, reduce download size and increase render speed.

If you use them right.

Which 99% of sites do not.

Re: I tried Servo

#256

Post by goku12 »

zavec wrote: post #253
goku12 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, dumping gecko would be a suicide for Firefox. Much of Firefox's minuscule userbase consists of knowledgeable nerds who are holdouts from the Blink monoculture.

My main concern is manifest v3, I would be incredibly annoyed if I had to switch to a browser that broke ublock.

I think they're trying to switch to MV3 without removing the features that let uBO and the others work.
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