Lordy, who knew Hacker News had so many gun enthusiasts? I learned something new today.
If there is a topic, you will find someone on HN to go deep on it. I love it
Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
251–260 of 445 posts
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's really sad because, straightforwardly, there's no penalty for just saying PEBKAC. Gun industry has tons of US legislative-granted legal immunity lest they ever accidentally become victim of a legal process that holds them accountable for, say, a mass shooting. They've been saying it was a political witchunt and avoiding dealing with it. This, hopefully, breaks the dam.
The issue here is a question of whether the product is defective. The various legislation passed to protect firearm manufacturers against nuisance “defective product” lawsuits in the specific case where the product functioned as intended and was used illegally by a violent criminal, do not apply. This is not a political issue. This is a discussion about whether a product is defective.
> The various legislation [...] do not apply.
Well, except specifically for Sig Sauer on the topic of an external safety in New Hampshire[0]. Which, given that's the thing people have been filing lawsuits in New Hampshire about, is a bit of a political issue, no?
[0] https://www.nhpr.org/nh-news/2025-05-28/sig-sauer-p320-pisto...
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
Odds are, you'll never experience the self-discharging issue. Having said that, I don't find a mostly-reliable firearm acceptable from a safety perspective. If I don't pull the trigger, it cannot go bang, ever, for any reason.
I’m not taking odds on an edc item which takes a lot of banging around. Glock 18 is a simple choice.
A Glock 18, huh? I’d fucking love to edc a Glock 18.
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#254There is a lot of accidental discharge happening when people holster their pistol improperly and the trigger snags on something or they inadvertently press the trigger while grabbing it. However, I’ve seen at least one footage of a Sig 320 discharging while properly holstered (Sig tried to claim the retention hood wasn’t properly closed but it clearly was): https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSAI_HUZDI0
That video is nuts. Should never happen
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Just watching this, and he's saying this model has no manual safety. That's an absolutely wild design choice in my mind!
Many pistols don't. It does lead to a higher risk of accidental discharges (that's how we got the term "glock leg"). That's also the argument that Sig made - that every unintended discharge was due to user error. The evidence is increasingly clear cut that this isn't the case, and the pistol can go off on its own when jostled while properly holstered, but Sig persists in trying to claim the pistol is safe and blame t…
"that every unintended discharge was due to user error" -- Sig is doing a fantastic job of making it clear that that's false (as you say).
The real statement is "every unintended discharge on a known-safe gun is due to user error." I would believe that all unintended discharges on, say, a Glock 17 are user error. I no longer can believe that of Sigs.
And it's like brakes on a car. If it fails for even one person one time and causes one accident, that's too much. The stakes are way too high when you're dealing with something that can take lives if it malfunctions.
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm still very curious why the P320 beat out the venerable Glock 17 & 19 combo in the Army's recent selection. It would seem being able to change from duty to compact is more of a gimmick than practical. I'd wager most P320's will spend their service life in exactly one configuration. Sig does have a way of making every pistol feel like it was custom molded to your hand - but Glocks "Just Work".
"I just want them to make one with a damn thumb safety and if this competition won't make them do it, nothing will." - some US Army ordinance guy about Glock, probably.
COLT 1911 45 ACP condition 1.
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#257Earlier quoted context omitted.
+1 Forgotten Weapons Ian ("Gun Jesus") is amazing, even just from a history / engineering perspective. I like it far better than more Michael Bay leaning content in that space, though there's good fun in a "Can this 50 cal go thru X ?" videos haha.
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Do you have any evidence of this? The only thing I can find anywhere is a video of Ian timing a trans cosplayer who's doing a shooting match dressed as 2B from Neir: Automata (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhn18QhVzVM), and an Instagram post of him with a gay 2nd-amendment advocate (https://www.instagram.com/p/C2nh1HIy_uS/?hl=en).
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a recently licensed firearms owner from Canada and as part of the safety training part of the licensing process, I became aware of how unsafe the P320 seemed to be. It really feels like that model needs to be taken off-market, undergo significant redesign, and for Sig's marketing sake, probably re-emerge as some new model like the SP321 where the S stands for "safety" :-) What I'm not as familiar with is why hasn…
It's really sad because, straightforwardly, there's no penalty for just saying PEBKAC. Gun industry has tons of US legislative-granted legal immunity lest they ever accidentally become victim of a legal process that holds them accountable for, say, a mass shooting. They've been saying it was a political witchunt and avoiding dealing with it. This, hopefully, breaks the dam.
I've spent my career working with great marketers and I don't think any single one of them would advocate for the approach that Sig Sauer took with that stupid "It Ends Today" campaign. In fact, I'm sure all of them would have recommended the exact opposite.
They should very quickly pivot to a "It [100% Safety] Starts Today" remedial campaign admitting there's a problem, following-up with full transparency about how they plan to reorient their organization to make the situation better, then providing frequent proof of progress towards the safety goal. There's a critical window for them to turn this from a crisis that might sink the US division of the company to one that serves as the basis for why they were compelled to adopt safety-first design processes for their guns.
This is their version of the [1982 Tylenol Crisis](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/tylenol-murders-1982) but they've really fumbled the ball so far.
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#259I recently bought a SIG P320, and a week later, I started reading articles about it self discharging. =P It’s not like it happens all the time, but it seems that if the safety lever spring’s thickness is off by a thousandth of an inch, and the height of the post it fits on is also off by a thousandth of an inch, and you drop the pistol at just the right angle with enough force, the FBI reportedly got it to discharge…
At least one of those critical components (P/N 1300739-R) is manufactured in India. Is that a contributing factor?
Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman
#260There is a lot of accidental discharge happening when people holster their pistol improperly and the trigger snags on something or they inadvertently press the trigger while grabbing it. However, I’ve seen at least one footage of a Sig 320 discharging while properly holstered (Sig tried to claim the retention hood wasn’t properly closed but it clearly was): https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSAI_HUZDI0
Not knowing anything about guns I would assume you would engage the safety when putting the weapon in the holster. Is that not true?
This is a hard question to answer, but I'll try to boil it down to this specific firearm. Many handguns, like all Glocks and many Sigs, these days are "striker fired," meaning there's an internal hammer that strikes the hammer versus an external hammer. Internal hammers are more complicated than external hammers, and that includes, in the case of Glocks, two built-in safeties internally that would prevent misfires. The only way they would fire is if the trigger is pulled. Period.
There are no external safeties for the operator to engage with these handguns. They will only go off the trigger is pulled - so drops should not set it off, nor the actions in the video. You have to intentionally pull the trigger for the gun to go off, which is the ultimate last word in safeties.
There are still semiautos with external safeties hammers, the most famous being the 1911. These are what's called single actions. The trigger weight (amount of pull on the trigger) is relatively light, so they have an external safety for the operator to engage/disengage.
I personally prefer single actions, hammer cocked, safety engaged, but this is always a very, very personal preference by people that carry. I own Glocks, but I would not carry one because of the lack of external safety, however, I would never criticize anyone that does. This is 100% strictly boils down to what the person is comfortable doing.