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The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

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Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#251

Post by ericmay »

jonplackett wrote: post #233
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm? I don’t think it’s ‘efficiency’ in the same way spaceX is run. Yeah they cut costs, but they got better quality results. With clothes / appliances etc we have reduced quality at our expense - while the companies doing it make more money than ever.

No - the term Late Stage Capitalism gets thrown around a bunch as a scarecrow for anything seemingly bad going on, but in this case it’s more likely a symptom of lack of education of materials and/or people not caring, and resource depletion/competition due to overpopulation and rise in living standards across the world.

> With clothes / appliances etc we have reduced quality at our expense - while the companies doing it make more money than ever.

Specifically this is an issue of government failure and cultural malaise - food quality anyone? We need to vote better, and vote with our dollar better. Stop buying dumb DJI drones to race around and buy a nice sweater instead.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#252

Post by Xcelerate »

layer8 wrote: post #227
moffkalast wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case it might've been that the original product wasn't cost effective to produce in the first place, or that most people buying it don't really care much about quality but just about the price, so that's what each provider optimizes for instead?

One recent example is a sturdy fold-out clothes drying rack I owned. All reviews praised its quality. My unit unfortunately got damaged in a heavy storm when I left it outside by mistake. The manufacturer got bought up in the meantime, and the product now is more flimsy and unstable, metal axes have been replaced by plastic ones. And I haven’t found any other model comparable to the old one on the market. I’d be will…

It’s gotten absurd. I’ll easily pay 10x the regular price of some object if I’m confident it will last a very long time and I won’t have to think about it anymore. I’ve replaced all the crappy LED bulbs in my house with Yuji Sunwave brand. I’ve not had a single bulb flicker or go out in years now, and the quality of the light is superb (i.e. more akin to what everyone used to have with incandescent bulbs). I bought a Control Freak induction cooktop in 2018. The whole family uses it far more than the cheap gas range that came with the house and is a pain to clean. Similarly, I replaced all the Food Network brand pots and pans I had in college that were chipping paint and rusting with Demeyere versions. Not a single problem since.

And to your point, I’ve probably gone through six clothes drying racks by now that all break down after a short time. I have yet to find a high-quality one.

It sounds expensive, but I suspect that in the long-term, the approach of buying higher quality up front ultimately ends up cheaper in terms of time and replacement costs. I’ve debated replacing some home appliances with commercial or restaurant versions, but there are some notable tradeoffs with that unfortunately, as the purpose of the appliance becomes somewhat different than a home use case.

Of course this strategy is all well and good if you can foot the initial high cost of the products, which many people cannot on the typical family income. There’s been a lot written about how those of lower income are often taken advantage of in this way—they end up paying a higher “lifetime cost” for lower quality products and service, because the system attempts to produce the minimum viable affordable product, which then sets the bar for the “new normal”.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#253

Post by delfinom »

xattt wrote: post #190
layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

E.g. the race to the bottom of the Billy bookcase. In the last 5 years, IKEA has started using plastic fasteners to secure the backing.

Those plastic clips work better than the traditional backing nails they used to use. Those nails couldn't hold back shit in the presses wood they used.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#254

Post by nubinetwork »

inglor_cz wrote: post #212
bamboozled wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I break this promise from time to time, but every time I buy an IKEA product lately, I vow never to do it again.

Interesting. I rarely have problems with IKEA products, but I had quite many problems with bespoke wooden pieces of furniture.

I find it depends on what you buy... my couch and table are fine, my bed wobbles and squeaks a fair bit... /shrug

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#255

Post by terminalshort »

simianparrot wrote: post #149

Airplane tickets used to cost a lot more for economy class, even adjusted for inflation and fees. To get the equivalent service and quality today you simply have to pay more, you just have the choice of paying very little for very low quality because there’s more flights and more planes. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/even-with-fees-the-miracle-of... Same can be said for most electronics and even clothes. I’m not say…

But I don't want the equivalent service. I want the cheapest ticket possible to get me from A to B. And apparently most people agree with me, or that's not what they would be selling. This is the opposite of a problem.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#256

Post by ysofunny »

commodities are a lie.

quality is real, commodity markets have been historically abused to "steal through quality"

for example, all the best fruits from the global south are not consumed in the countries they grew, but exported for "better profits". this has gone on too long.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#257

Post by theptip »

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

It’s a great point.

I sometimes wonder how long it is before open-source manufacturing can fill the gap.

For a long time it’s been the case that it’s prohibitively expensive to do bespoke manufacturing using eg 3D printing and CAD lathes, vs. the cost attainable using mass manufacturing.

But perhaps a “made in America” option that can only compete on quality, not on price, could focus on “bring your own design” and fabricating nice, durable, repairable designs that apparently can’t be found elsewhere.

I guess the problem is that modern products need quite complex integrated electronics which are hard to build in an OSS paradigm.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#258

Post by yard2010 »

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

Razer deathadder is a great example. I didn't want to "upgrade" to the new model until I didn't have the choice and I'm stuck with enshitified, plastic version of what used to be a nice piece of hardware.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#259

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 »

layer8 wrote: post #176

Many comments here are arguing that quality has actually gone up over the past decades. However, a common experience for me is that I own something of good quality from 5/10/15 years ago and now buy the successor model from the same brand, but the product has gotten worse, being cheaper made. And I have a hard time finding a replacement that matches the quality of the old version. It’s a regularly reoccurring frustra…

I think there is something to it. My favorite analogy for this is the car. I had a 2003 Acura TL once. By far, the best car I owned between the value, comfort and its specs. Compared to today's version, I can't help but notice that 2003 TL was one of company's initial foray's into US market so they had to offer something decent, useful or at least something that stood out.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#260

Post by wiz21c »

ericmay wrote: post #251
jonplackett wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this all just Late Stage Calitalsm? I don’t think it’s ‘efficiency’ in the same way spaceX is run. Yeah they cut costs, but they got better quality results. With clothes / appliances etc we have reduced quality at our expense - while the companies doing it make more money than ever.

No - the term Late Stage Capitalism gets thrown around a bunch as a scarecrow for anything seemingly bad going on, but in this case it’s more likely a symptom of lack of education of materials and/or people not caring, and resource depletion/competition due to overpopulation and rise in living standards across the world. > With clothes / appliances etc we have reduced quality at our expense - while the companies doin…

> resource depletion/competition due to overpopulation and rise in living standards across the world.

Interesting take. Any source ?

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