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Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

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Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#251

Post by skydhash »

diggan wrote: post #211
ipsi wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet that's not enough, even when someone very definitely knows better: https://www.troyhunt.com/a-sneaky-phish-just-grabbed-my-mail... Turns out that under certain conditions, such as severe exhaustion, that "sus filter" just... doesn't turn on quickly enough. The aim of passkeys is to ensure that it _cannot_ happen, no matter how exhausted/stressed/etc someone is. I'm not familiar enough with passkeys to pass ju…

If you're saying something is less secure because the users might suffer from "severe exhaustion", then I know that there aren't any proper arguments for migrating to it. Thanks for confirming I can continue using OTP without feeling like I might be missing something :)

> If you're saying something is less secure because the users might suffer from "severe exhaustion"

Something "$5 wrench"

https://xkcd.com/538/

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#252

Post by 6uhrmittag »

balazstorok wrote: post #38

At least opening PRs is a safe option, you can just dump the whole thing if it doesn't turn out to be useful. Also, trying something new out will most likely have hiccups. Ultimately it may fail. But that doesn't mean it's not worth the effort. The thing may rapidly evolve if it's being hard-tested on actual code and actual issues. For example it will be probably changed so that it will iterate until tests are actual…

> At least opening PRs is a safe option, you can just dump the whole thing if it doesn't turn out to be useful.

However, every PR adds load and complexity to community projects.

As another commenter suggested, doing these kind of experiments on separate forks sound a bit less intrusive. Could be a take away from this experiment and set a good example.

There are many cool projects on GitHub that are just accumulating PRs for years, until the maintainer ultimately gives up and someone forks it and cherry-picks the working PRs. I've than that myself.

I'm super worried that we'll end up with more and more of these projects and abandoned forks :/

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#253

Post by ethanol-brain »

cyanydeez wrote: post #176
infecto wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a time we live in. I guess it depends how pessimistic you are.

[flagged]

Feel free to share resources, but I am speaking purely in terms of practicality related to my day to day.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#254

Post by skydhash »

bayindirh wrote: post #84
signa11 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I left the platform, doing my coding old way, hosting it somewhere else. may you please let me know where are you hosting the code ? would love to migrate as well. thank you !

You're welcome. I have moved to Source Hut three years ago [0]. My page is https://sr.ht/~bayindirh/ You can also self-host a Forgejo instance on a €3/mo Hetzner instance (or a free Oracle Cloud server) if you want. I prefer Hetzner for their service quality and server performance. [0]: https://blog.bayindirh.io/blog/moving-to-source-hut/

I just use ssh on a homeserver for personal projects. Easy to set up a new repo with `ssh git@ git init --bare .git`. The I just use git@:.git as the remote.

I plan to use Source Hut for public projects.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#255

Post by rchaud »

It's remarkable how similar this feels to the offshoring craze of 20 years ago, where the complaints were that experienced developers were essentially having to train "low-skilled, cheap foreign labour" that were replacing them, eating up time and productivity.

Considering the ire that H1B related topics attract on HN, I wonder if the same outrage will apply to these multi-billion dollar boondoggles.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#256

Post by ramesh31 »

The Github based solutions are missing the mark because we still need a human in the loop no matter what. Things are nowhere near the point of being able to just let something push to production. And if you still need a human in the loop, it is far more efficient to have them giving feedback in realtime, i.e. in an IDE with CLI access and the ability to run tests, where the dev is still ultimately responsible for making the PR. Management class is salivating at the thought of getting rid of engineers, hence all of this nonsense, but it seems they're still stuck with us for now.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#257

Post by shultays »

mikrl wrote: post #229
bramhaag wrote: post #58

Seeing Microsoft employees argue with an LLM for hours instead of actually just fixing the problem must be a very encouraging sight for businesses that have built their products on top of .NET.

I remember before mass LLM adoption, reading an issue on GitHub where an increasingly frustrated user was failing to properly describe a blocking issue, and the increasingly frustrated maintainer was failing to get them to stick to the issue template. Now you don’t even need the frustrated end user!

one day both sides will be AI so we can all relax and enjoy our mojitos

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#258

Post by blibble »

mrweasel wrote: post #228
pydry wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When their performance reviews stop depending upon them not doing that. Microsoft's stock price is dependent on them proving that this is a success.

What happens when they can't prove that and development efficiency starts falling, because developers spend 50% of their time battling copilot?

they'll just add more and more half-baked features

it's not as if Microsoft's share price has ever reflected the quality of their products

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#259

Post by kamaal »

whatshisface wrote: post #250
kamaal wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>These GH interactions remind me of one of those offshore software outsourcing firms on Upwork or Freelancer.com that bid $3/hr on every project that gets posted. This level of smugness is why outsourcing still continues to exist. The kind of things you talk about were rare. And were mostly exaggerated to create anti-outsourcing narrative. None of that led to outsourcing actually going away simply because people are…

There's no reason why an outsourcing firm would charge less for work of equal quality. If a company outsourced to save money, they'd get one of the shops that didn't get the job done.

>>There's no reason why an outsourcing firm would charge less for work of equal quality.

Most of this works because of price arbitrage. And continues to work that way, not just with outsourcing but with manufacturing too.

Remember those days, when people were going around telling Chinese products where crap? That didn't really work and more things only got made in China.

This is all so similar to early days of Google search, its just that cost of a search was low enough that finding things got easier and ubiquitous. That same is unfolding with AI now. People have a hard time believing a big part of their thinking can be outsourced to something that costs $20/month.

How can something as good as me be cheaper than me? You are asking the wrong question. For centuries now, every decade a machine(s) has arrived that can do a thing cheaper than what the human was doing at the time. Its not exactly impossible. You are only living in denial by asking this question, this has been how it has worked the day since humans found way of mimicking human work through machines. We didn't get here in a day.

Re: Watching AI drive Microsoft employees insane

#260

Post by ecb_penguin »

roxolotl wrote: post #240
mieubrisse wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was looking for exactly this comment. Everybody's gloating, "Wow look how dumb AI is! Haha, schadenfreude!" but this seems like just a natural part of the evolution process to me. It's going to look stupid... until the point it doesn't. And my money's on, "This will eventually be a solved problem."

The question though is what is the time horizon of “eventually”. Very different decisions should be made if it’s 1 year, 2 years, 4 years, 8 years etc. To me it seems as if everyone is making decisions which are only reasonable if the time horizon is 1 year. Maybe they are correct and we’re on the cusp. Maybe they aren’t. Good decision making would weigh the odds of 1 vs 8 vs 16 years. This isn’t good decision making…

> This isn’t good decision making.

Why is doing a public test of an emerging technology not good decision making?

> Good decision making would weigh the odds of 1 vs 8 vs 16 years.

What makes you think this isn't being done?

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