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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI video may be to Hollywood as photography was to painting. Photography wasn't "painting, but better" - it was a different thing. AI-native video may not resemble typical Hollywood 3-act structure. But if it takes enough eyeballs away from Hollywood then Hollywood will die all the same.

I think you're contradicting your own argument. Painting didn't die from photography. Photography increased the abstract and more creative aspects of painting and created a new style because photography removed much of the need to capture realism. Though, I am still entranced by realist painting style myself, it is serving different purpose than capturing a moment.

I'm not an expert so I may be wrong about all this. But my impression is that Pictorialist photography aped painting for 50 years. Photography only came into its own as a "photography native" art form with Stieglitz and people like that around ~1905. By that time, non-representational painting styles like Cubism had already sucked the remaining juice out of painting, with Duchamp's 1917 urinal perhaps deserving credit for the coup de grace. Today painting is a shadow of what it once was - and public interest and auction prices reflect that. Museums occasionally have abstract painting exhibits but they're poorly attended because the public dislikes them. Ask a person on the street what their favorite painting movements are and likely every name will be more than 100 years old, possibly hundreds of years old. Compare auction prices between pre-1917 paintings and post-1917 paintings. Besides a few middlebrow pop artists like Dali or Warhol, meme painters like Pollock, or trendy political painters like Basquiat or Johns, the older paintings will be orders of magnitude more in demand. Painting used to move the conversation forward, now nobody cares.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is just about convenience - you're not going to get these results with a 14B video model. I'd much prefer to have something I could hack on in ComfyUI but the open weights models don't compete with this anymore than a 32B LLM competes with Gemini 2.5 Pro for coding. And at least in coding you can easily edit the output from the LLM regardless...

> you're not going to get these results with a 14B video model Foundation models are starting to outstrip any consumer hardware we have. If Nvidia wants to stay ahead of Google's data center TPUs for running all of these advanced workloads, they should make edge GPU compute a priority. There's a future where everything is a thin client to Google's data centers. Nvidia should do everything in its power to prevent that…

Your post strangely sounds like Nvidia primarily makes graphic cards for consumers.

Last time I checked, they couldn't produce enough H100s/GB100s to satisfy demand from everyone and their mother running a data center. And their most recent consumer hardware offerings have been repeatedly called a "paper launch" - probably because consumer hardware isn't a priority, given the price (and profit) delta.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, there will be so many AI generated videos that many will go unwatched. Not sure where this is heading but it's certainly an interesting future.

Nobody will watch anyone's "creations". The TV or whatever device watch on will observe what you and everyone else engage with and how you interact with it and create content for you on the fly, just like Instagram and TikTok's feeds do now. AI creatives can enjoy the brief blip in time where they might get someone else to watch what they've created before their skills become obsolete in an exponentially faster rate…

Sounds terrifying to me.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're contradicting your own argument. Painting didn't die from photography. Photography increased the abstract and more creative aspects of painting and created a new style because photography removed much of the need to capture realism. Though, I am still entranced by realist painting style myself, it is serving different purpose than capturing a moment.

I'm not an expert so I may be wrong about all this. But my impression is that Pictorialist photography aped painting for 50 years. Photography only came into its own as a "photography native" art form with Stieglitz and people like that around ~1905. By that time, non-representational painting styles like Cubism had already sucked the remaining juice out of painting, with Duchamp's 1917 urinal perhaps deserving credi…

> Ask a person on the street who their favorite painting movements are and likely every name will be more than 100 years old

I think you overestimate the publics art appreciation. The average answer will be a blank stare.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#255
post #116

>Imagen 4 is available today in the Gemini app, Whisk, Vertex AI and across Slides, Vids, Docs and more in Workspace. I'm always hesitant with rollouts like this. If I go to one of these, there's no indication which Imagen version I'm getting results from. If I get an output that's underwhelming, how do I know whether it's the new model or if the rollout hasn't reached me yet?

Indeed. At the bottom of their Imagen page, they link to Google AI Studio:

https://aistudio.google.com/generate-image

But this still says it's Imagen 3.0-002, not Imagen 4.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#256

How do you use Imagen 4 in Gemini? I don't see it in the model picker, I just 2.5 Flash and 2.5 Pro (Upgrade).

It's not at all obvious from Gemini - probably the easiest way is through Whisk. https://labs.google/fx/tools/whisk

Whisk is only available in certain countries though, unlike Gemini.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#259
post #185
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't people be happy that more individuals would be soon able to create freely in a more accessible way? The gates are wide open for those that want to put in effort to learn. What AI is doing to creative professionals is putting them out of a job by people who are cheap and lazy. Art is not inaccessible. It's never been cheaper and easier to make art than today even without AI. > Personally I can't wait to se…

> The gates are wide open for those that want to put in effort to learn. Why is effort a requirement? Why should being an artist be a viable job? Would you be against technology that makes medical doctors obsolete?

I would be against technology that freezes medicine at our current understanding and makes it economically unviable to develop new medicine.

I don't think it's worthwhile to explain the inherent value of human created art or that to learn how to do it one must put some effort into it. All I can say is, if you are one of those people who do not understand art, please don't build things that take away someone else's livelihood without very good reason.

I don't think the majority of AI generation for art is useful for anything but killing artists.

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