Apple constantly says paying through the app store is better for consumers, so why are they so hesitant to simply compete? Unless...
Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
251–260 of 365 posts
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#252My main takeaway from this is that Luca Maestri was a blight on Apple. He steered this company into the most malicious of compliance schemes that only has increased their regulatory attack surface. On top of that, he's the one who discouraged apple from making huge investments in compute for LLMs that threatens to derail Apple and the iPhone's primacy as the gateway to information.
Yes, don't forget Tim Cook, who from what I've seen, is the biggest proponent of milking every dollar out of absolutely everything, regardless of if it's good for the consumer or not*. So Maestri and Cook were a perfect combination, Maestri got to be tough, and Cook got someone to blame.
*Take USB-C, Apple made tonnes of money from MFA, which was the main reason they didn't ever want to pivot to a different connector. Even if it was the better choice.
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do use it, and as far as I am aware I am not trying to change anything?
I think you've been hit with what I call the "hidden agenda" fallacy, which is something many people seem to commit routinely (or almost non-stop on reddit). It's closely related to (and involves) the Strawman fallacy, but includes some specific flawed reasoning. It basically goes like this: 1. Read the argument 2. Disregard argument and instead try to read the person's mind or guess "what they really meant" to uncov…
OP asked:
> Why cant this happen on Apple devices too?
There are many ways to interpret that question - a hypothetical pondering, or a "why doesn't it work this way?" in the most direct sense. I interpreted it as the latter.
> I think you've been hit with what I call the "hidden agenda" fallacy, which is something many people seem to commit routinely (or almost non-stop on reddit). It's closely related to (and involves) the Strawman fallacy, but includes some specific flawed reasoning.
Isn't this exactly what you've done to my comment?
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do use it, and as far as I am aware I am not trying to change anything?
I think you've been hit with what I call the "hidden agenda" fallacy, which is something many people seem to commit routinely (or almost non-stop on reddit). It's closely related to (and involves) the Strawman fallacy, but includes some specific flawed reasoning. It basically goes like this: 1. Read the argument 2. Disregard argument and instead try to read the person's mind or guess "what they really meant" to uncov…
Are you a psycologist ?
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#255If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…
> No gambling, no randomized loot boxes, etc. > So I give Tim a lot of credit for maintaining such a principled stance. IMO, someone that drives and capitalizes on addictive spending by an underage audience should never be considered principled. While it may not be considered gambling, it’s not much better when it’s often out of control due to feeding on FOMO.
Roblox entered the chat.
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#256The difference between the quality of software in the Apple App Store versus the Google Play Store is dramatic, in my opinion. Apple has succeeded in increasing the bar to entry and standards to the point where a lot of the blatant trash/advertising malware present in the Google Play Store is caught by the net of the App Store submission process (and the $99 developer fee).
I do believe the court when they say that Apple has engaged in seriously anticompetitive behavior, and I don't look to Apple as some sort of altruistic honest company, but I also am curious to see if this reduces the average 'value' of a given app in the App Store. On the other hand, it could encourage the development of high-quality software since devs aren't paying the 30%+ tax on App Store sales.
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#257If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…
It's sad that the entities that forced Apple to be more open are free to play peddlers... > has been a gold standard for F2P monetization Every F2P game is the same. They waste your time until you buy IAPs out of boredom. What gold standard?
Not true, you can enjoy rocket league fully without buying anything.
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
So many questions: - Why not just handle all of this in the app? Do you think Apple won't allow it? - Are you geofencing this functionality? It seems like per other comments this is US only. - How are you handling existing subscribers (not sure if applicable)? Will you "encourage" them to migrate?
Because customers can’t trust payments in the app. Unless I’m being bounced out to somewhere I can see the URL and an SSL certificate I’m not paying. What you’re suggesting is a dangerous anti-pattern.
I don't know about iOS, but on Android you can just pay through a Google Pay pop-up, you don't need to input any kind of payment information to the app itself. Does iOS not have such a mechanism?
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Enshitification" is probably the most self-sabotaging term we could think of; in terms of how it makes us look like whining teenagers. I will never use it in polite conversation; which would ironically be a tech company's greatest goal for if we had a word. But optics aside, this also ignores the problem that many of these businesses were not sustainable and were never sustainable . They are heading downhill, partia…
You bring up some good points. I guess I was too absolute in my statement as I didn't intend to imply it was the only problem. Given that, Windows gaining ads (nevermind the number of settings panels/windows, etc), games being released broken or loot box driven, google search once being good and now being ad driven, and a myriad of other problems have caused the downfall as well. So the big players are part of the pr…
No doubt; Windows gaining ads is the most egregious form; because it combines advertising with an upfront payment.
I think many of the worst offenders, and so much of the problem, would go away if we combined a payment with a mandatory ad-free experience, for any bundled software. Buy a TV, no ads allowed on the TV itself. Buy a computer, no ads allowed on Windows itself. Buy a Mac, no ads allowed in Apple News, should it be bundled. If it's truly free software that the customer did not directly or indirectly pay for, then ads are permitted; but the moment there's a payment, it's over. You can have Free with Ads, you can have Paid with No Ads, but never both.
That would not stop Discord from getting worse, or other services like them; but not allowing a paid + ad combo would solve most of the painful problems.
Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US
#260If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…
> No gambling, no randomized loot boxes, etc. > So I give Tim a lot of credit for maintaining such a principled stance. IMO, someone that drives and capitalizes on addictive spending by an underage audience should never be considered principled. While it may not be considered gambling, it’s not much better when it’s often out of control due to feeding on FOMO.
Apple is currently profiting quite handsomely off gambling games marketed to children. They deliberately limit the App Store to encourage games like Clash of Clans and shitty Farmville clones because letting you emulate Yoshi's Cookie wouldn't make them money.
They're both unprincipled. Sweeney just happens to be correct.