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Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

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251–260 of 448 posts

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#251

A long, long time ago (within the past ten years), I had to verify my age with a site. They didn't ask for my ID, or my facial scan, but instead asked for my credit card number. They issued a refund to the card of a few cents, and I had to tell them (within 24hr) how much the refund was for, after which point they'd issue a charge to claw it back. They made it clear that debit and gift cards would not be accepted, it…

That was, in fact, what COPA mandated in the US in 1998, and SCOTUS struck it down as too onerous in Ashcroft v. American Civil Liberties Union, kicking off the last 20 years of essentially completely unregulated Internet porn commercially available to children with nothing more than clicking an "I'm 18" button. At the time, filtering was seen as a better solution. Nowadays filtering is basically impossible thanks to…

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Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#252

Yea, I'm not doing that. What alternatives are their for 10-20 person gaming groups that want voice chat and streaming?

There's a comparison table of messengers here: https://eylenburg.github.io/im_comparison.htm

Note the list of "messengers that are relevant but did not make it on the list" in case none of the messengers in the comparison meets your requirements. Even that isn't exhaustive, but there are lots of options.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#253
This is never about protecting the children.

This is always about government overreach.

People are less likely to criticize the government, or even participate in political debate, if their online identities are know by the government. Governments like obedient, scared citizens.

The only ethical response to laws like this, is for websites and apps to terminate operations completely in countries that create them. Citizens who elect politicians without respect for human rights and privacy don't really deserve anything nice anyway.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was, in fact, what COPA mandated in the US in 1998, and SCOTUS struck it down as too onerous in Ashcroft v. American Civil Liberties Union, kicking off the last 20 years of essentially completely unregulated Internet porn commercially available to children with nothing more than clicking an "I'm 18" button. At the time, filtering was seen as a better solution. Nowadays filtering is basically impossible thanks to…

[flagged]

it is recommended not to employ sarcasm when counterpoints are easily available

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

it is recommended not to employ sarcasm when counterpoints are easily available

Unfortunately, when counterpoints are easily available, I expect the person to have already thought of them, hence the sarcasm.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#256
post #5
post #2

Aside from the privacy nightmare, what about someone who is 18 and just doesn't have the traditional adult facial features? Same thing for someone who's 15 and hit puberty early? I can imagine that on the edges, it becomes really hard to discern. If they get it wrong, are you locked out? Do you have to send an image of your ID? So many questions. Not a huge fan of these recent UK changes (looking at the Apple E2E sit…

It says in the article - you can send them a scan or photo of your ID if the face check doesn't work (or if you don't want to do the face scan).

What if I don't want them to have any personally identifiable information about me in a database?

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#257
post #253

This is never about protecting the children. This is always about government overreach. People are less likely to criticize the government, or even participate in political debate, if their online identities are know by the government. Governments like obedient, scared citizens. The only ethical response to laws like this, is for websites and apps to terminate operations completely in countries that create them. Citi…

That’s a very strange take on governments, treating them as a singular entity. A government that deserves that name is first and foremost and elected set of representatives of the constituents, and thus like citizens that vote for them again, act in their interests.

If the government is not working like that, you have an administrative problem, not a societal one. A state is its population.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#258

Of all the terrible, dumb-headed ideas. I would not want my kids scanning their face into who-knows-what third party's service. I already decline this technology when finance companies want to use it for eg. KYC verification ("Sorry, I don't own a smartphone compatible with your tool. If you want my business you'll have to find another way. Happy to provide a notarized declaration if you'd like" has worked in the pas…

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This response is a textbook example of a manipulative false dichotomy that poisons legitimate discourse about child safety online.

Presenting the only options as either "scan your child's biometric data into opaque systems" or "let your child be groomed and/or get addicted to porn" is intellectually dishonest and deliberately inflammatory. It's a rhetorical trap designed to shame parents with valid privacy concerns into compliance.

Privacy rights and child protection are not mutually exclusive. Numerous approaches exist that don't require harvesting biometric data from minors, from improved content filtering and educational initiatives to parental controls and account verification methods that don't rely on facial scanning. Corporations are simply implementing the most convenient (for them) solution that technically satisfies regulatory requirements while creating new data streams they can potentially monetize.

What's actually happening here is deeply troubling: we're normalizing the idea that children must surrender their biometric data as the price of digital participation. This creates permanent digital identifiers that could follow them throughout their lives, with their data stored in systems with questionable security, unclear retention policies, and potential for future misuse.

Weaponizing the fear of child exploitation to silence legitimate concerns about corporate overreach isn't just manipulative - it's morally reprehensible. Framing opposition to biometric surveillance as being pro-exploitation deliberately poisons the well against anyone who questions these systems.

We can and must develop approaches that protect children without surrendering their fundamental privacy rights. Pretending these are our only two options isn't just wrong - it actively undermines the nuanced conversation we should be having about both child safety and digital rights.

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#259

I would like to think there there is a solution that can be engineered, in which a service is able to verify that a user is above an appropriate age threshold, while maintaining privacy safeguards, including, where relevant, for the age-protected service not to be privy to the identity of the user, and for the age verification service to not be privy to the nature of the age-protected service being accessed. In this…

Crypto comes up every time this topic is discussed but it misses the point. The hard part is identifying with reasonable accuracy that the person sitting in front of the device is who they say they are, or a certain age. Offloading everything to crypto primitive moves the problem into a different domain where the check is verifying you have access to some crypto primitive, not that it’s actually you or yours. Any ful…

That sounds like a reasonable compromise to me, it's already what happens with ID for pubs etc so I don't think it's much different to the status quo

Re: Discord's face scanning age checks 'start of a bigger shift'

#260
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, make no mistake, I hate both of these. I loathe this forced surveillance of everyone because parents can't be bothered to supervise and teach their children about the most primary of human animal functions (sex), regardless of their reasons for it. I take great pains to keep minors out of my adult spaces, and don't have to resort to anything as invasive as biometric surveillance or card charges. This notion that…

> This notion that the entire world should be safe for children by default, and that anything and everything adult should be vilified and locked up, is toxic as all get-out and builds shame into the human animal over something required for the perpetuation of the species. The world should be safe for kids because kids are the future of our society. When the world isn't safe, families won't have kids and society will…

“Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it.” ― Mark Twain
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