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Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

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Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#251
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. In cases where a native app and web app are both available on iOS, there’s often a huge difference in battery usage and sluggishness. Also, as a sibling poster mentioned, I like having fully “offline” apps as well, for example for maps and notes. I’m not saying that I l…

PWAs can be fully offline. Are you sure you understand what you criticize?

Have you tried building PWAs for large user bases?

Here are some of the frustrations I had with PWA's.

There are massive differences between browsers and Android/iOS when it comes to storage, access to local files, and size limitations. Proper backup/sync of large files using IndexedDB, Cache API, or localStorage is not as straightforward as native storage.

Service workers aren’t designed for complex or long-running computations, But they’re more like lightweight assistants, and you would have a HUGE pain trying to accommodate all the different browser/OS limitations if you need predictable background sync/backup. This seems maybe to be better going forward due to frameworks like Ionic/Capacitor or Workbox.js tho.

PWAs are tethered to the web’s security model, which means they’re generally restricted to HTTP and HTTPS for communication. This limits direct access to protocols like SMTP (email) and FTP (file transfer). You’re stuck with web-friendly options like WebSockets or WebRTC, or you’ll need a server to act as a middleman. Building a torrent client would be really annoying due to the limited protocol access. The WebTorrent JavaScript framework, which can run in the browser, does not fully support traditional TCP/UDP torrent protocols directly but instead relies on WebRTC data channels. Therefore, your app will only connect to peers supporting WebRTC, which significantly reduces available torrents and peer counts. Also, there often is an added level of restriction to background processes on mobile.

There are also limits to access of the devices APIs: - NFC (partial Web NFC support in Android Chrome) - Bluetooth (Web Bluetooth limited to Chrome Android, absent in iOS) - Native contacts, SMS inbox, telephony, or system-wide calendars. - Some system-level sensors (barometer, precise accelerometer data).

Also: Web apps often perform slower on heavy graphics or computation than native apps due to lack of direct GPU access. I have not tested this myself, but I know this has gotten better.

Onwards: - PWAs can't directly register as the default handler for specific file types or URL schemes across the OS. - PWAs cannot reliably run background tasks (like precise location tracking, audio playback, VoIP callbacks, or continuous data monitoring) when inactive. - WebAuthn supports biometrics, but native biometric APIs (like Face ID/Touch ID) offer deeper integration for specific app functionality. This is a HUGE need for our firm, as we rely on it for easy authentication for our app, and customers love it over other authentication methods. - PWAs can't easily embed widgets into the OS home screen or system-level UI components like control center integration.

YES, PWAs are much more capable than some people think and could, in many instances, work just as well as a native app. (I use GeForce Now on iOS with not many problems.)

And this is not even touching on how much easier it is to use Android/iOS SDKs to put together an application, and user expectations (which might be WRONG when they think PWAs are lesser or more insecure, but these attitudes are still reality).

All that said, I prefer PWA over native myself due to publication freedom, but I get annoyed when you talk down to people, and you seem to be the one that doesn't understand that there are actual limitations.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#252

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

This is a bizarre take. Are you also suggesting there’s no reason to have a native app on a laptop? Because it’s essentially the same question. There are many things which a native app can do that a browser just cannot do well, or at all. I don’t know what your needs are, but for example if you’re doing heavy video or audio editing, accessing heavy amounts of RAM or utilizing GPU compute or doing other things on the bare hardware, doing that all from a browser is definitely not there yet.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#253

I still, will never understand the need for native "Apps". To this day, I have never seen an "App" that couldn't simply have been a website/webapp. Most of them would likely be improved by being a webapp. The only benefits I can see of "Apps", are the developer get's access to private information they really don't need. Yeah, they get to be on the "App Store". But the "App Store" is a totally unnecessary concept intr…

Simple, UX. The reality is, most webapps for mobile just suck. The UX is nowhere near that of a native application. I don't want any text to be selectable. I don't want pull to refresh on every page. I don't want the left-swipe to take me to the previous page. You can probably find workarounds for all these issues. The new Silk library ( https://silkhq.co/ ) is the first case I've seen that get's very close to a nati…

It doesn't sound like anything that a PWA (paired with some a sync mechanism like Websockets) can't solve. And with WebAssembly the convergence is even more compelling.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when you visit whatever URL is being wrapped?

I dunno, I haven't reverse engineered it to find the URL. But I would imagine it gets confused about authentication.

Would put money it on it using something like '?device_verified=1'.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#255
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simple, UX. The reality is, most webapps for mobile just suck. The UX is nowhere near that of a native application. I don't want any text to be selectable. I don't want pull to refresh on every page. I don't want the left-swipe to take me to the previous page. You can probably find workarounds for all these issues. The new Silk library ( https://silkhq.co/ ) is the first case I've seen that get's very close to a nati…

To be fair, browser apps do have their advantages: - text is selectable - content is zoomable - you can have an ad/nuisance blocker - page source is open While native apps have their own advantages: - much smoother experience esp. navigation, scrolling, animations, etc. - better overall performance (JavaScript will always lose to the native binary) - access to hardware opens new possibilities; audio, video accelerato…

All the features you mentioned can also be achieved by a well developed PWA. Of course, minus the widgets or some deeper system integration (like controlling phone calls etc.)

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On iOS it's kinda worse in some ways. If you enroll into a company MDM they can see all your apps. On Android if they use the work profile (which is the standard method these days) they can only see the apps inside there.

Apple introduced account-driven enrollments in 2021[1], which behaves similar to Android's work profile. Managed apps/data are kept in its own APFS volume, and MDM servers don't have access to anything outside of it. They also disallow system-wide commands like wipe device. The only caveat is you need managed Apple IDs[2] to use this enrollment flow, and I doubt many companies have set it up. Regardless, MDM installe…

Yes I know about User Enrolment. The problem is the managed Apple IDs are a complete and total dealbreaker. So I'm not even considering this as an option.

The reason is that Apple demands that the UPN (the account ID) and the email address are the same. For us this is not the case (our UPN is our employee number as an email address, whereas our email address is just our name). And obviously we're not going to change this for ten thousand users because Apple wants to (most of which don't have Apple devices because we're a European company). Also, you have to manually decide what happens to each user that has already created an account with their corporate email address and what to do with the content they purchased on it. This is not feasible for a large corp. We have commented this to our Apple account manager for years and years but they simply don't care. If you work in this realm you probably know that Apple doesn't really care about things that matter for their corporate customers anyway. The consumer is their main client and it shows (unlike with Microsoft where it's the opposite).

So the whole account-driven enrolment (User Enrolment) as well as everything else depending on managed Apple IDs like DEP for Macs is completely out of the window.

The problem in my opinion is that I as an admin can simply query for example all the employees that have something like Grindr installed. Considering the current political climate in the US (or worse, the middle east where this can lead to a death sentence in some cases) it's obvious why this is super bad. And really, why should we be able to do this at all?

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? I know someone in adtech and I'm pretty sure Apple allows a similar app manifest that allows you to check for specific apps. I could be wrong.

> I know someone in adtech and I'm pretty sure Apple allows a similar app manifest that allows you to check for specific apps. I could be wrong. On iOS an app developer will need to register in advance which external applications their app intends to query, and the list needs to be very short and motivated. [1] Incidentally, “I have a friend who says...” isn’t really a good citation anywhere outside Reddit - which HN…

Could you take a moment of your time to read the last point in the HN Commenting Guidelines? https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#258
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iPhones are less of a privacy nightmare. One of the biggest incentives for creating apps is to scrape all kind of data from the users. Look at how many apps require permission to see you contacts. And how many actually need your contacts to function. That's why I'm still a bit surprised that many seem to be surprised by findings like this one here.

> Look at how many apps require permission to see you contacts. It is so annoying that it’s either "give access to ALL my contacts and ALL their information (yes, even the notes I took on their favorite things for next Christmas)" or "don’t give access". I wish we could limit the number of contacts and the level of information we give.

Photo access has improved a lot in this regard recently.

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#259
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple introduced account-driven enrollments in 2021[1], which behaves similar to Android's work profile. Managed apps/data are kept in its own APFS volume, and MDM servers don't have access to anything outside of it. They also disallow system-wide commands like wipe device. The only caveat is you need managed Apple IDs[2] to use this enrollment flow, and I doubt many companies have set it up. Regardless, MDM installe…

I'm working on implementing this for the company, and the annoying limitations on iOS is that you can't clone apps. If you want Gmail (as an example) as managed app, you can't have another Gmail as unmanaged app. While the company can't see inside the Gmail managed app (without the app itself explicitly providing that feature), the company can remove Gmail (and any local data inside the app) at any time. Fun fact fro…

Yes, Apple hates the idea of work-badged apps that Android has. I have to admit, a lot of our users don't grok it either at first. However once they realise the benefits (the company has much less visibility, AND they can turn off the work section completely with the touch of a button) they usually come around pretty quickly.

The bad part of this is that apps have to specifically support the multiple profiles option, otherwise they can't be used for this.

And yes, I agree, that is the best way. We have the same restrictions for personal devices. Though I as an admin know we never use the locate functionality (and I know every person who has access to it).

Re: Everyone knows all the apps on your phone

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The PowerPoint he talks about and is displayed the line below it

I know but that does not clarify the connection between blue tick, certain pin codes and a certain week in the slightest. Sure, these are probably all hints to affluent members of society but I was hoping for a more detailed explanation.

Blue tick/check = verified Twitter accounts, from when Twitter staff chose who to give the blue tick and only gave it to journalists, technologists, etc that the twitter staff wanted to amplify. Nowadays a blue check simply means you purchased premium, but we remember the original meaning. This is not an Indian thing.

PIN codes = postal codes.

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