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The Burnout Machine

unionize.fyi

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Re: The Burnout Machine

#251

Post by hackable_sand »

deedubaya wrote: post #144
mrbombastic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not really decided if i am pro or anti tech unions yet but this argument always comes up and falls flat for me. It just smells like pitting the working classes against each other. Are we more privileged than most? Sure. We are still closer to broke then we are to the 1%.

I might agree from the tech worker’s perspective, except to someone working in fast food flipping burgers, a tech worker making $200k/$400k/$1M+ might as well be in the 1%.

I have both perspectives!

I went from developer to "burger flipper". There is some mythologizing going on, but that is a lack of perspective. The people I work with don't have the time or money to graduate their skills.

Paramount, most of them could easily, easily train into tech roles given the opportunity.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#252

Post by simonask »

echelon wrote: post #228
snozolli wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software engineers do basically no physical labor I developed debilitating tendinitis in both wrists right about the time I graduated college. A decade later, I developed a bulged disc in my neck that ended my career. There are very real risks to your body from sitting at a computer, deep in thought all day. There's a whole other swath of health issues, too, beside injury risks.

How does a union help you with your wrists? Why do you need help? I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. If our industry fills with unions, suddenly I won't be able to job hop to positions that look interesting to me. I'll have to consider things like seniority and tenure and a bunch of artificial rules. It'll be like going back to hig…

In normal countries, the role of unions is to ensure that your rights and livelihood are secured when your body or mind sustains damage from a work injury.

It sounds like your idea about what unions are and do are deeply informed by abnormal circumstances.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#253

Post by astroalex »

Minor49er wrote: post #235
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

> Or take a gap year to regenerate, or reinvent, yourself. I'm curious about people who have done this and how they've handled things like insurance, taxes, and getting back into the workforce after such a long gap. It seems like a big risk since there's no guarantee of employment. I'd also imagine having a long break would be looked on unfavorably by interviewers and make it harder to get back in

I took 2 years off where I made 0 income. Insurance was covered by the government and my healthcare was quite good. I didn't pay taxes because I didn't make any income. Getting back into the workforce happened literally within a single day (this was ~4 years ago when the market was different, not sure the same thing would happen now). I had no trouble switching jobs multiple times afterwards, either—recruiters and interviewers have never seemed to care that I took a break.

I was able to take some much needed time off to focus on personal projects and I'm extremely grateful I was able to do it.

My friends who didn't take time off were able to advance more in their careers, but I think it is a fair trade.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#254

Post by echelon »

4ndrewl wrote: post #249
echelon wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Working nights and weekends got me a close to ten figure exit at a now publicly traded fintech. So yeah, I don't mind. Rather than retiring on that money, I'm back at it again, and I'm working even harder. I know what mediocrity and complacency is. I've worked surrounded by it, and I'll do anything to avoid it. I don't want that bullshit where coworkers strive to do the minimum and everybody plays hot potato to see w…

Cross-posted to LinkedIn?

As cringe as LinkedIn can sometimes be, I certainly relate more to it than to r/antiwork.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#255

Post by an0malous »

protonbob wrote: post #20

The author seems to think that everybody works this way. In reality, many of us work 40-45 hour weeks with no on call and low amounts of meetings. These jobs are in the boring (military, banking, insurance etc) sectors but I make a good, not great, living.

[dead]

Re: The Burnout Machine

#256

Post by bombcar »

ghiculescu wrote: post #233
jacobgkau wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My initial reaction to this whole thing was the same as yours (not that I have any love lost for academics). Software engineers do basically no physical labor and usually get paid better than many people who physically work way harder. On the whole, software engineers are not "the victim," as you said. However, your examples made me think. > In other places, you can have a typical 40h/week job at a salary way better…

No industry has 0% unemployment. Most people would kill for the employability of the median software engineer.

[flagged]

Re: The Burnout Machine

#257

Post by daedrdev »

sureglymop wrote: post #238
daedrdev wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly feel that groups within the "classes" often have vast differences that make me question the idea of class consciousness. A well off tech emloyee has interests that align far more with those with wealth than a small business owner who might have interests far more aligned with blue collar workers. And don't even get me started on social differences, like LGBT right etc that divide people.

Social differences shouldn't make you question class consciousness. Quite the opposite is true, to be class conscious means to have recognized what economic class you are in regardless of any other features. Hidden there is a good point though. Social differences can be leveraged as a means to deter class consciousness. Let's take the idea of the wage gap for example. Now both male and female workers can be underpaid…

So I should just look past some people wanting homophobic or sexist or racist in the name of class consciousness? Nah

Re: The Burnout Machine

#258

Post by samatman »

simonask wrote: post #252
echelon wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a union help you with your wrists? Why do you need help? I type every single day and I don't want your health problem placing limits on my job flexibility and career advancement. If our industry fills with unions, suddenly I won't be able to job hop to positions that look interesting to me. I'll have to consider things like seniority and tenure and a bunch of artificial rules. It'll be like going back to hig…

In normal countries, the role of unions is to ensure that your rights and livelihood are secured when your body or mind sustains damage from a work injury. It sounds like your idea about what unions are and do are deeply informed by abnormal circumstances.

Perhaps that's why I've met so many engineers from these normal countries in my own, abnormally wealthy one.

In fact, they've told me so, in so many words.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#259

Post by samiv »

Minor49er wrote: post #235
stared wrote: post #100

Software engineering is one of the ways of playing life in "easy mode" (I moved from academia over a decade ago, and I know the difference). This blog post tries to paint it differently - and it feels like it lacks perspective compared to virtually any other occupation. > We’re living in a world where billion dollar tech companies expect us to live and breathe code, demanding 80 hour weeks under the guise of "passion…

> Or take a gap year to regenerate, or reinvent, yourself. I'm curious about people who have done this and how they've handled things like insurance, taxes, and getting back into the workforce after such a long gap. It seems like a big risk since there's no guarantee of employment. I'd also imagine having a long break would be looked on unfavorably by interviewers and make it harder to get back in

I can only speak for myself but I took 4 times a year or more off. Three of those times I spent backpacking and traveling in Australia, NZ and South-East Asia, and I spent time doing something else such as fruit-picking and working as a Dive Master and scuba diving for half a year. (Best times really)

Getting back to work was as simple as making a few phone calls essentially and exploring my network. Granted, it was a different time (decades ago) and I didn't look for a mega corp job that requires arduous interview process.

Since then when changing jobs and interviewing I've only ever been asked once about those "gaps" in my resume and I said that I took time off to travel and explore and was greeted with enthusiasm only.

Re: The Burnout Machine

#260

Post by lolinder »

cyrnel wrote: post #180
legitster wrote: post #34

This write up sounds like it describes a very particular subset of companies. If you only want to work at the flashy unicorns in downtown San Francisco, you are signing yourself up for exploitation. Like any career, if you get off the beaten path there are plenty of pretty okay jobs out there. Especially if you have a marketable skill. This is software, if you have a brain and functional hands - you already own the m…

> you're going to personally be better off changing companies Job mobility for tech workers is a fluke of current economic conditions. If interest rates spike, or a recession happens, or a bubble bursts, this benefit would go away and you'd be stuck at that exploitative company or unemployed. Unionization and labor laws can make workers less disposable without substantially affecting growth (see: European tech hubs).

> make workers less disposable without substantially affecting growth (see: European tech hubs).

Sorry, but you shot your argument in the foot with this example. The last two months of Europeans trying with great difficulty to replace US tech with local tech have shown just how little tech has grown in Europe relative to the US. Is that because of their labor laws? Unclear. But it's certainly not a shining example of success.

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