Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

#251

Post by cmrdporcupine » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 8:58 PM UTC

swat535 wrote: post #188

vohk wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justification is Trump wants to do to Canada much what Putin is doing to Ukraine. Russia being allowed to take Ukraine legitimizes world powers engaging in conquest within their sphere. It's really that simple. The talk about fentanyl, the supposed trade imbalance, and all the rest is just smoke and noise, because if he said that he wanted to raid Canada for resources and Lebensraum it might actually threaten his…

Is annexing Canada something the United States could even realistically achieve in the next four years? Even if such an effort were attempted, any progress would likely be reversed by the next administration, assuming Democrats return to power. Beyond that, the situation has been highly disruptive to Canada. I've witness movements like "Free Alberta" and "Alberta 51" have gained traction, while some people display pr…

To be honest, I've never seen Canadians this united. The polling numbers on "Canada joining US" dropped significantly between December and March (from a tiny number to an even smaller number). The number of Quebecois identifying as Canadian and pro-Canada also went up markedly.

Nationalism is one hell of a drug.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

#252

Post by bergie » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:00 PM UTC

WorldWideWebb wrote: post #231

FredPret wrote: post #56

I've seen two apocalyptic North American scenarios in fiction, and have previously dismissed both as ridiculous. 1. In the Fallout universe, the USA annexes Canada 2. In at least two Neal Stephenson novels (Snowcrash and Termination Shock), the USA has collapsed. I've never before thought that either of these would have a semi-realistic path to actually happening.

Also Snow Crash, the US consisting of many large, corpo-owned city states (also being discussed in the current news with techbros trying to start up their own self-regulated cities).

Not to mention the military agencies having fractured into for-profit corporations like CIC and "Admiral Bob's Navy" etc

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

#253

Post by watwut » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:01 PM UTC

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #198

watwut wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No crime is ever committed by law abiding citizen, by definition. That being said, lawfully acquired guns are routinelly used in crimes. Plus, they make gun owning men (specifically) much more successful at killing themselves. Plus they cause accidents. Guns are waay more likely to be used by tyrants supporters then by anybody else. Case in point, republicans support president dismantling democracy and own more guns.

> lawfully acquired guns are routinelly used in crimes. They are literally almost never used in crime. So “routinely” is false. In fact, I would guess that 99.9% of lawfully acquired guns in America are only ever used in lawful ways. > Case in point, republicans support president dismantling democracy Democracy is not being dismantled. If you’re an American citizen, you still have the right to vote however you want.…

You are wrong in both points.

Plus the worry now is executive actively harming companies and opposition. Retaliating against companies, against law enforcement, breaking laws while doing both, attacking press and stomping on people's rights. Not some kind of flimsy complaint your account was banned after you harassed several people.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

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Post by bryanlarsen » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:01 PM UTC

bdangubic wrote: post #249

a-priori wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had free trade. The US has, in a very short period of time, squandered what was a highly profitable and mutually beneficial trading relationship. There was already a sentiment of distrust in Canada about being so dependent on American goodwill. You can see this in the debates from the 1998 federal election ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyYjRmM7RDY ) on the establishment of CUSFTA, the precursor to NAFTA and la…

it is 2025, nothing takes a generation any longer unless you are implying donny and his apostoles will rule america for a generation. otherwise new administration will repair this fairly quickly

A new administration can not promise that somebody like Donald Trump will never be elected again. That's what it would take to repair this relationship.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

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Post by cmrdporcupine » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:02 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #180

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're using the pronoun "they" for the US. But this is by no means the case that there is a singular entity that has stated this policy. Right now the US is in a political crisis. It has elected a weak, narcissistic man without coherent or sensible policy who is for the short term without serious opposition. (Mainly because its own neo-liberal elite has done a garbage job of running the country for the last 30 years…

Trump is not weak. He has more power then any other previous president and completely loyal party behind him. He does not have e to even worry about laws at all. Plus, Trump will blame Biden, woke, women, democrats and especially Canada and EU for bad economy. And Trumps base will 100% believe him.

Au contraire. A strong leader does not need to rely on the kinds of tools Trump has been employing.

The rise of someone like Trump to power reflects I think a fragmentation of consensus and weakening of legitimacy of the government. He's a reality TV star, an entertainer. Yes he has what seems like a blank cheque, but it's likely to backfire on him eventually.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

#256

Post by k12sosse » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:09 PM UTC

JeremyNT wrote: post #216

a-priori wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incorrect to think of Canada as being "cornered" here nor having "nothing to lose". It's the US that's isolating itself. Canada isn't 'cornered'. It has the entire rest of the world to talk to and make deals with. It has everything to lose by continuing to rely on the US, which is why you're seeing such a hard pivot toward Europe and Asia.

> It has everything to lose by continuing to rely on the US, which is why you're seeing such a hard pivot toward Europe and Asia. The problem is, this kind of pivot would take a long time and be extremely difficult. Out there in the real world, real Canadians have a lot to lose. The US strong-arming its allies in this way puts them in a massive bind near term. Canada could eventually adapt to a different world order…

You greatly underestimate the stubbornness of a Canadian to suffer for what they believe is right.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

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Post by rurp » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:10 PM UTC

yatopifo wrote: post #4

That makes perfect sense. It puzzles me why supporters of the current US regime think Canada won’t resist the US. Be it a trade war or a military invasion, Canada will make the cost so great that it may eliminate the US from the world arena. Canada has been cornered and has nothing to lose at this point.

There has been some darkly hilarious reporting that much of this administration was genuinely surprised and confused that Canada didn't immediately roll over in response to US bullying. Most people realize that the world isn't made up of NPCs during childhood, but I guess the clowns currently in charge missed that developmental step. Either that or they have spent so much time on twitter and similar spaces that it has seriously warped their view of reality.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

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Post by omikun » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:11 PM UTC

123pie123 wrote: post #184

kube-system wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why should we be borrowing all this money from foreigners when we’re a rich country? The crazy thing is, most of the money that the US borrows from is from their own citizens... not foreigners. I don't know why everyone presumes that US debt is mostly or entirely owed to other countries. It isn't.

Why doesn't the US just print money instead of having to borrow money then print it? does any other country do it this way?

Because "borrowing" money 1.) recycles foreign dollars back into the US economy 2.) maintains foreign interest in accepting US dollars for goods and thus sustains US trade deficit 3.) prevents idle foreign US dollars that would other wise buying US assets that then inflates their price (eg real estate)

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

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Post by psychlops » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:15 PM UTC

overfeed wrote: post #160

psychlops wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which parts will benefit from higher inflation? All domestic producers which produce products that cost less than imported competitors. I agree with you. The question to be answered is what kind of economy do americans want to have going forward. It's great to be in America at present, but what happens if global relations continue to deteriorate and fracture?

> All domestic producers which produce products that cost less than imported competitors Who will afford to buy their expensive products? Cheap imports are what is making minimum wage-earners circumstances bearable. Full-on reshoring is untenable without reforging the entire economy for higher salaries at the bottom. The whole system has feedback loops (higher wages -> higher product prices) which will cause pain for…

> Who will afford to buy their expensive products?

Fewer and fewer people. Yes, a shrinking of the consumer economy. It will work, just not like it has in the past. As I see it, you are absolutely correct in your assessment. Absent a proactive approach, the alternative (which I think we will live to see) will be watching the system break.

Perhaps a lame duck president rebalancing tariffs can slow the slide, but I think the end result will be the same.

Re: Canada considering charging for road access from USA to Alaska

#260

Post by psychlops » Thu, Mar 20, 2025, 9:15 PM UTC

jaredklewis wrote: post #146

psychlops wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that this is the point of all the machinations. The US having the reserve currency is a liability in many ways and the direct reason why it's a consumer not producer economy. Losing reserve status will be damaging to some parts of the american economy and create a boom in others. Take a look at what current tariffs are across the world. The US isn't necessarily bullying as equalizing.

> Losing reserve status will be damaging to some parts of the american economy and create a boom in others. The primary effect of losing reserve currency status would be on the government's ability to borrow money. That's going to be a problem since US government debt to GDP ratio is >100%. We have no fiscal discipline now and neither party shows interest in making cuts or raising taxes. DOGE hasn't changed anything…

Oh, I think that's inevitable for the reasons you listed. DOGE would need to do way more to actually matter. Observing the current upheaval due to minimal cutting guarantees the future will be Argentina.

The upside is the debt decreases in value as the currency inflates. So there's that.