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Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

theintercept.com

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Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#251

Post by YZF »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #167
YZF wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Just some small corrections here because the news has changed since like last year where you still seem to be. As of today, Israel and Hamas have agreed to a ceasefire (after tons of delays, like a negotiator being assassinated [1], but that was a moment ago), but one side is not actually respecting it [2], and the other side is literally in the process of dying en masse from hunger [3,4]. Really hard to even know wh…

Don't tell me what side you're on by quoting Al Jazeera the propaganda arm of Qatar.

All the do-gooders were saying that if we only get a ceasefire Hamas would release the hostages. Guess what - they didn't. If they've released them then the ceasefire would likely have held. All of them. Unconditionally.

Hamas is over. They can make the call at what cost to the Palestinians. The "peace protestors" are calling for more bloodshed.

This really isn't a matter of political opinion or who you think is right or not. Israelis feel like Hamas is an existential threat. They will keep fighting until that threat is removed and the hostages are returned. The cost is up to Hamas.

These is no dying en masse from hunger. But there will certainly be more food after Hamas surrenders and returns the hostages. In the meantime Hamas can provide for its citizens from its stocks in the tunnels.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#252

Post by YZF »

mmooss wrote: post #181
YZF wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't comment specifically about GPs intent. I am referring to the use of the word by a larger group. I have no idea what GPs intent is but I have a pretty clear idea why the word was adopted by the anti-Israeli antisemitic propaganda machine. Your question is answered here in fair depth: https://www.ajc.org/sites/default/files/pdf/2021-10/A%20Guid... On top of that a few tests we can apply: - Are Jewish people ju…

> Let's say you are or might be a serial killer. How should I talk about it without offending you? Just asking. If that is an issue, it absolutely should be addressed; personal offense doesn't outweigh the deaths of others. Imagine if an alleged serial killer said, 'nobody can talk about that because it offends me.' It's also a well-worn tactic to change the subject from one's own behavior to attacking people who rai…

You say you're not changing the subject and then you go ahead and change the subject.

The number of casualties is consistent with the kind of war that's being waged. If Hamas hadn't used healthcare and educational facilities then those wouldn't be targeted.

The warrants are not related to genocide. They're about war crimes. They're also political and illegal (Israel isn't a member of the ICC and Palestine is not a country) but there you went and changed the subject again.

Israel can kill as many people it takes to secure its citizens. As long as it is targeting Hamas, which it is, there is no upper bound. It can legally target hospitals and schools that are used by Hamas. That is all legal and moral. The rest is up to the Palestinians and Hamas. If Hamas removes the need for Israel to keep fighting it by surrendering then this war will be over. If Hamas keeps threatening to kill Israelis then Israel will eliminate this threat just like any other country would.

A by the way is that this practice of using schools, hospitals, and mosques, e.g. isn't unique to Hamas, if you check this article: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjw4egp7lwno

You'll see Hezbollah has also set up headquarters in schools in Syria.

Another subject again- Palestinians in/from the west bank are killing civilians and attacking Israelis. That is the root cause for what's going on there. Once they stop doing that we can make progress. The Israeli right is in power because Palestinian violence has convinced Israelis the only way that they can live in peace is to put a right wing government who will be extremely harsh with the Palestinians in power. This is the Palestinians own doing as a group. Sure, I sympathize at the individual level but as a group they decide to take a path of violence against a much stronger group and do their best to create a situation in which they are going to lose a lot.

Palestinians need to drop their violent struggle and the gullible people of the west need to stop supporting that. That is the only way they will get anything. We were on that path to some extent during the Oslo accords and the Palestinians literally blew this up, along with hundres of Israelis in busses and malls and restaurants.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#253

Post by exodust »

pvg wrote: post #215
exodust wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep repeating "constitutionally protected activity" like it carries more weight the more you repeat. The Intercept article does the same thing. If we step back and look at what's happening at "pro palestine" protests across the world, much of it is toxic and unwelcome by the wider community. Law enforcement sees the negative energy and responds using passive tracking tools and other measures. They're seeing esca…

Law enforcement sees the negative energy and responds Typically, in sane societies, it's preferable that the coercive part of state power is deployed for things more concrete and definable than 'negative energy'.

In this case, negative energy often leads to civil unrest and other things in law enforcement's wheelhouse. The police were even called to Google's offices last year, you might remember. Pro-palestine clowns refused to leave the office. They were arrested and fired.

See how easily negative energy turns into trespass? Nothing wrong with cops planning ahead for the inevitable, based on historical data for that type of protest.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#254

Post by dotancohen »

octopoc wrote: post #231
dotancohen wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is not committing genocide. Not by any reputable definition of genocide. Israel is waging war against an enemy who in fact clearly states their intention to genocide the Jews. You are correct to be angry about the amount of people dying in this war. But you should direct your anger to those responsible for both starting the war and for directly endangering those people.

“Look what you made me do” is what you’re saying, but Israel could stop attacking Gaza today and not suffer a single material attack from Gaza for a long time. Way, way more Palestinians have died since October than Jews. Israel has no need to keep on its current course. It has made its point and is now making a completely different point—that it is a cruel nation incapable of self restraint. Nobody can force you to…

  > “Look what you made me do” is what you’re saying, but Israel could stop attacking Gaza today and not suffer a single material attack from Gaza for a long time.
No, "Look at what you made the Arabs do" is what Westerners say to Jews to excuse kidnapping and murdering babies and elderly. Nobody here says that. Gaza could have stopped attacking Israel any time between 2005 and October 6, 2023 and not suffered a single attack from Israel. And from October 7, 2023 they could have returned our children and our parents and our sisters, and the war would have ended immediately.

  > Way, way more Palestinians have died since October than Jews.
So your argument is that the side with more casualties is in the right? Or that not enough Jews have died?

Where you advocating for the Jews on October 8th, while the body count from the current conflict was still more Jews than Arabs?

  > Israel has no need to keep on its current course. It has made its point and is now making a completely different point—that it is a cruel nation incapable of self restraint.
Israel has not "made its point" because the hostages are not yet home. Israel is cruel? The Gazans freely sacrifice their own children _and_ our children in the name of a religious war, and we're the cruel side? I believe that you know very little of Gazan or Muslim culture, and probably less of Israeli or Jewish culture.

  > Nobody can force you to self reflect. Nobody can spare you the consequences if you refuse.
Reflect on what? Wanting our children back home? What consequences do you think could possibly be worse than having our children captive?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#255

Post by [deleted] »

exodust wrote: post #253
pvg wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement sees the negative energy and responds Typically, in sane societies, it's preferable that the coercive part of state power is deployed for things more concrete and definable than 'negative energy'.

In this case, negative energy often leads to civil unrest and other things in law enforcement's wheelhouse. The police were even called to Google's offices last year, you might remember. Pro-palestine clowns refused to leave the office. They were arrested and fired. See how easily negative energy turns into trespass? Nothing wrong with cops planning ahead for the inevitable, based on historical data for that type of…

[deleted]

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#256

Post by bakuninsbart »

coolspot wrote: post #132
Centigonal wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember, back when cannabis was illegal in most states, a common argument was that white and black people reported using cannabis at the same rate when surveyed. However, many, many more black people ended up in prison for it. Here is a survey of US youths that supports this premise: https://monitoringthefuture.org/data/panel/demographic-subgr...

> people reported using cannabis at the same rate when surveyed. However, many, many more black people ended up in prison for it. As I understand it, people went to prison mostly for selling or possessing amounts that are implying selling. Which might explain the difference. Would you go to prison for possessing a single joint back then?

It might. But racism is a major more obvious and plausible explanation.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#257

Post by Moomoomoo309 »

dotancohen wrote: post #254
octopoc wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Look what you made me do” is what you’re saying, but Israel could stop attacking Gaza today and not suffer a single material attack from Gaza for a long time. Way, way more Palestinians have died since October than Jews. Israel has no need to keep on its current course. It has made its point and is now making a completely different point—that it is a cruel nation incapable of self restraint. Nobody can force you to…

> “Look what you made me do” is what you’re saying, but Israel could stop attacking Gaza today and not suffer a single material attack from Gaza for a long time. No, "Look at what you made the Arabs do" is what Westerners say to Jews to excuse kidnapping and murdering babies and elderly. Nobody here says that. Gaza could have stopped attacking Israel any time between 2005 and October 6, 2023 and not suffered a single…

How sure are you that if the hostages were returned, that the war would end? Netanyahu needs this war to continue to stay in power, I don't think he has an exit plan, I think he intends to have this war last as long as possible. 60% of all buildings in Gaza have been destroyed, when will it be enough? When the last building is destroyed, will they start blowing up the rubble piles? Do you think there's an exit plan?

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#258

Post by beepbooptheory »

YZF wrote: post #251
beepbooptheory wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just some small corrections here because the news has changed since like last year where you still seem to be. As of today, Israel and Hamas have agreed to a ceasefire (after tons of delays, like a negotiator being assassinated [1], but that was a moment ago), but one side is not actually respecting it [2], and the other side is literally in the process of dying en masse from hunger [3,4]. Really hard to even know wh…

Don't tell me what side you're on by quoting Al Jazeera the propaganda arm of Qatar. All the do-gooders were saying that if we only get a ceasefire Hamas would release the hostages. Guess what - they didn't. If they've released them then the ceasefire would likely have held. All of them. Unconditionally. Hamas is over. They can make the call at what cost to the Palestinians. The "peace protestors" are calling for mor…

Interesting viewpoint! Thanks for contributing to the discussion in a positive way. Hope all is well for you, good luck with everything.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#259

Post by j4coh »

kristjansson wrote: post #232
j4coh wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The quibble was that > Every demographic commits petty crimes and code violations at about the same rate .. is not actually true, so better not to claim it as part of a strong argument.

They argument does not depend in the slightest on the equality of crime rates, its depends on the their similarity. The data linked show quite similar rates of reported use for cannabis. You can make all sorts of valid counterarguments at this point. Refuting the language used to express the argument ('uniform', 'equal') is meaningless-to-disingenuous nitpicking of its form with basically no consequences for its subs…

That’s my point though? If the argument doesn’t depend on it, why make an easy to nitpick and disprove claim as part of it, especially if it doesn’t even come to bear on the point anyway.

I’m not the one who brought up the nitpick in the first place, so you can argue with them instead if you prefer people didn’t do so in the first place.

Re: Dataminr tracked Gaza-related protests

#260

Post by hulitu »

bawolff wrote: post #250
diegolas wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but i normally assume protestors get permits can't help but find this hilarious (also not american either)

That is kind of the central idea of democracy. Instead of revolution and all its upheavel & damage, you get a mini controlled revolution every 4 years. Instead of unmitigated riots, you get demonstrations but with some crowd control & beurocracy to prevent injuries (and well chaos, riots and looting). Democracy is kind of a deal - you get to have the popular discontent but without the extreme forms that end up damagi…

> That is kind of the central idea of democracy.

What you are describing here, are the requirements. The implementation, is usually, much, much different.

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