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HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

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Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#251

Post by Zardoz84 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #109
shermantanktop wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason. Today’s MS is not what it was back then. But long memories are not a bad thing, really. If .NET suffers a bit from some unfair perception, perhaps that can remind MS and others what happens when you take an aggressively adversarial approach.

The ironic thing? GitHub, VS Code, and TypeScript are all Microsoft products.

You mean that Microsoft BOUGHT GitHub , like they did with Skype and many other things.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#252

Post by hu3 »

nolist_policy wrote: post #114
shermantanktop wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason. Today’s MS is not what it was back then. But long memories are not a bad thing, really. If .NET suffers a bit from some unfair perception, perhaps that can remind MS and others what happens when you take an aggressively adversarial approach.

I would say that .NET is the best example that Microsoft has not changed: https://isdotnetopen.com/

These are handful of handpicked twitter posts that are almost 3 years old, including the page itself.

https://github.com/ghuntley/isdotnetopen

The website doesn't even explain what they mean by open.

Nor they explain why they think .NET is not open source.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#253

Post by hu3 »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #163
hypeatei wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> side note: sad that .NET and C# are not considered "major I've said it before on here, but the tech community severely underrates .NET today. It's not Windows only (and hasn't been for ~8 years) plus C# is a very nice language. F# is also an option for people who like functional languages. I'd highly recommend giving it a try if you haven't already.

Why would I use C# over any other language though?

LINQ alone is unmatched.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#254

Post by LoganDark »

I am still super disappointed about HTTP/3 in Rust. AFAICT there was a working HTTP/3 implementation in Rust over 6 years ago, but they (quinn crate) then literally yanked their entire version history from Cargo in order to wait for h3 which proceeded to take about three years (minus three days...) to even show up. I don't know the status of h3 today but that whole thing made me incredibly upset at the time. That having happened also makes me get annoyed again every time someone points out that Rust still doesn't have a very good HTTP/3 implementation, because I get reminded of the implementation from over 6 years ago that practically got retconned out of existence for this.

(I guess though that quiche has been an option if you like to write Rust like it's C.)

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#255

Post by foobarchu »

strongpigeon wrote: post #149
Svoka wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only Typescript is in-house. Others are acquisitions. Do you remember Embrace, extend, and extinguish times? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

VS code is mostly in house too. Sure, they don’t own Electron, but I was at MSFT when project Monaco (which became the basis for VS Code) was started and remember being very impressed by it back then

Text editors and IDEs come and go, there is very little commitment to using one.

If you write a project in C#, you've committed to it and it's ecosystem. Getting out of there when MS makes a choice you don't agree with is going to be near impossible.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#256

Post by int_19h »

neonsunset wrote: post #239
johnisgood wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parent comment was edited, it no longer seems to include "Rust", difficult to follow. :P

I edited it because it's not just my own experience of dealing with this. On twitter, I follow a couple Japanese developers from mainly gamedev scene and even they complain they started hearing more about "but it only works on windows" and "it's not open-source". Don't you find it strange that it should be the other way around the more years pass since .NET went OSS? The link itself is also quite outdated and mainly…

You forgot to mention that Miguel de Icaza was probably the single biggest .NET fanboy for literally decades before throwing in the towel. The fact that a person like this ended up being alienated tells volumes.

I should also add that the general public only saw the tip of the iceberg in this entire episode. Miguel spent a lot of time and effort internally trying to right the .NET ship, gradually escalating through management until he finally gave up.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#257

Post by CharlieDigital »

hu3 wrote: post #253
shepherdjerred wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I use C# over any other language though?

LINQ alone is unmatched.

Addendum: having `Expression`[0] type representing the expression tree is a really killer feature.

I've been doing a writeup comparing how ORMs work in TypeScript vs ORMs in .NET and one thing that is magical is that having the `Expression` type enables a much more functional and fluent experience with ORMs.

[0] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/advanced-top...

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#258

Post by int_19h »

bjoli wrote: post #102
arccy wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't good enough for the typescript rewrite...

Mostly because they didnt consider the AOT compilation mature enough.

Actually, the reason why they went with Go rather than C# is because they wanted to port the existing code as much as possible rather than rewriting from scratch. And it turns out that TS is syntactically and semantically much closer to Go, so you can often convert the former to the latter mechanically.

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#259

Post by redeeman »

thayne wrote: post #231
shermantanktop wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

.NET suffers from the long lasting reputational taint of Microsoft. It was seen as the sworn enemy of open source and Linux, and for good reason. Today’s MS is not what it was back then. But long memories are not a bad thing, really. If .NET suffers a bit from some unfair perception, perhaps that can remind MS and others what happens when you take an aggressively adversarial approach.

More than just that it came from MS. For a long time, .NET was completely proprietary, and only ran on Windows. Now it is open source and cross platform, but it is still fighting the momentum of being seen as Windows-only.

except if you want to use for example system.windows.forms, then "oh well different teams maintain that, nobody made it for linux!!!" "the core is open!!!"

they clearly WANT applications written in .net not to be cross platform

Re: HTTP/3 is everywhere but nowhere

#260

Post by CharlieDigital »

Navarr wrote: post #176
CharlieDigital wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ironic thing? GitHub, VS Code, and TypeScript are all Microsoft products.

GitHub was purchased, which is a bit different. TypeScript though I had no idea about! Good for them!

    > GitHub was purchased, which is a bit different.
Why is that different? The purchase was 7 years ago (?) at this point.

Do we make an exemption for SharePoint because it, too, is an extension of FrontPage acquired via Vermeer?[0]

At what point does it lose its exemption from "Hate All Things Microsoft"? 10 years? 20 years?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_FrontPage

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