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JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#251

Post by satvikpendem »

solardev wrote: post #28
hadrien01 wrote: post #16

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

I just started using Zed now for many things, it's still in development but it's getting there.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#252

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

FpUser wrote: post #194
rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

I work with many tools from JetBrains with the main one being CLion. I think in average their tools are superior to anything else on the market.

One thing I’ve always liked specifically about Jetbrains is that I think their IDE’s use the best visualization for merge conflict resolution. I don’t use Jetbrains much lately due to my current line of work, but I still find myself reaching for the IDE to resolve particularly hairy merge conflicts

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#253

Post by nine_k »

malkia wrote: post #6

I've been long user of JetBrains' products - and love them. I even use ReSharper in Visual Studio (which I still consider better IDE, but for Linux / Mac - JetBrains is my choice, and heck, sometimes even Rider/CLion/RustRover/GoLand on Windows too - especcially GoLand). But... but... I've always wanted (and willing to pay) a single IDE with any plugin that works in it - not just so many different versions... I'm a m…

Back in the day I wrote a significant part of the first version of PyCharm. A part of he job was also making the same language-supporting code available as a plugin, and virtual feature parity between PyCharm standalone and the Python plugin inside IDEA (the paid version) was a requirement.

Maybe things changed after the 15 years that have passed since, but I don't see why would they.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#254

Post by chpatrick »

rhubarbtree wrote: post #130

Anyone wondering whether JetBrains IDEs are still worth it - absolute yes from me. VS code is a UX mess by comparison. Webstorm can be tricky to configure with Typescript but once it’s setup my goodness it’s good.

I used CLion for a few years but it's incredibly clunky compared to VS Code with the clangd plugin, which is also free.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#255

Post by mroche »

MortyWaves wrote: post #152
joseda-hg wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ostensibly it's not one of the main features, Datagrip as a product has been a thing long before AI integration was even a thought

It’s absolutely front and center of its marketing page.

It's (at least to me) fairly obvious from both the feature's dedicated page and DataGrip's purchasing page that the AI Assistant is an add-on cost.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#256

Post by AnthonBerg »

b_e_n_t_o_n wrote: post #76
solardev wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs…

My only problem with jetbrains UI is that it's slow. Night and day difference using even vscode, let alone vim, sublime, helix, zed, etc. I tolerate it because the functionality it brings, but I find myself actually writing code in something faster. And I don't see fleet improving on this in a meaningful way - it's basically a competitor to vscode, which I don't use for the same reasons I won't use fleet. There is a…

Jetbrains always leave so much performance on the table!!

Jetbrains IDEs go pretty fast when the JVM running them is switched over to the ZGC garbage collector, and by making sure the Metal or Vulkan renderer are being used. (And DirectX on Windows? idk?)

The difference is pretty stark. ZGC is Verygood. Everything is very responsive. This is not an “enterprisey” JVM GC that takes ages to spin up for throughput. It’s quick.

The whole IDE starts up in like 1 second on my 2018 Intel i7 laptop?, including open projects and all. It’s wild how fast IntelliJ can get – and it’s also kinda wild how much performance they leave on the table with the default options.

It’s an easy config change in the .vmoptions file.

I think on macOS the Metal GPU-accelerated UI rendering is the default these days. On Linux you need to opt in to the Vulkan equivalent. It’s still a bit unrefined but worth it even now.

ZGC is a much bigger difference though. Try it!!!

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#257

Post by bayindirh »

cogman10 wrote: post #232
bayindirh wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Talking from the perspective of Eclipse, because it's the only IDE I invested my time in] In this case, it's not. Eclipse put Integrated into IDE, but doesn't subtract transparency in the process. You can see what it does, tweak every step meticulously if you want, and return to defaults with one click, if you prefer. What this transparency brings is mental flexibility and understanding. Do I want or need to switch?…

I think the big drawback to eclipse is it's a beast to get setup correctly before it performs well. It's built to support everything, but really does a pretty poor job out of the box. I primarily do Java development. I started with eclipse, fell away because at the time it had pretty awful maven support. Moved over to Netbeans which has pretty good maven and java support, but went through a somewhat "unsupported" per…

I have never written Java projects so big that used Maven in any capacity. Instead, I'm using it with C/C++ as you guessed and Python. Also XML, JS and other supported parts of the projects I write go through Eclipse if the projects themselves are beyond a certain size.

For C/C++, Eclipse has a "so-called" indexer, which indexes the whole project, does static analysis on the fly, provides great auto-complete and warns you about gotchas. Since it can read the whole project, it has a better view than a C++ LSP, and it works reasonably fast and provides great detail.

Also, Eclipse has "Linux Tools Integration", which is also a boon for C++ development on Linux.

All in all, it helped me to build a materials simulation code without any memory leaks and with great performance insights, so I can't complain. Plus, I love build and launch profiles of that thing.

Re: JetBrains Fleet drops support for Kotlin Multiplatform

#260

Post by vips7L »

tadfisher wrote: post #243
vips7L wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern language landscape has not backed away from checked errors. Rust is praised for its checked errors, countless posts on this forum praise Result in multiple languages. Swift has checked errors and Kotlin is implementing them via union types in the near future. Checked errors, via results or exceptions have never been the problem. It has always been Java the language that hasn't provided the syntax sugar for…

There is a huge difference: the first is an _exception_, which: - Unwinds the stack to a try/catch or exception handler, making exceptions practically difficult to deal with in concurrent programming. - If unchecked, can be ignored, silently propagating during stack unwinding. - If checked, infects the call stack with 'throws' annotations. The second is a normal return value, with no try/catch needed, handling the er…

I genuinely disagree. There is no difference between a checked exception and a Result.

- In concurrent programming uncaught exceptions won’t leave the future. Both values are available to you just like Results. I also don’t think arguments for concurrent programming are valid though. 99% of all code is single threaded.

- It is checked.

- Result infects the call stack as well.

- handling the error case with a checked exception is also mandatory with handling the success case. There is no separate “execution regime”. What is the difference here:

    val a = try {
        a();
    } catch (b) {
        onB();
    }
    
    val a = match (a()) {
        Success(a) => a
        Failure(b) => onB()
    }
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