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Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

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Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#251

Post by jorgemf »

rollcat wrote: post #242
DannyBee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because they are trying to parallel like 50amps (it's 12 volt IIRC) over a few conductors to get to 600watts. If it becomes unbalanced due to any number of reasons, none of those individual cables can come close to handling it - they will all generate enough heat to melt lots of things. Conservatively, they'd have to be 8awg each to be able to handle the full load without melting if they ended up taking the f…

Can we talk about how absolutely terrifying is that 600W figure? We're not transcoding or generating slop as the primary use case, we're playing computer games . What was wrong with the previous-generation graphics that we still need to push for more raw performance, rather than reducing power draw?

This genereation seems that is getting performance using more power and more cores. Not really an architectural change but only packing more things in the chip that require more power.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#252

Post by Dylan16807 »

nubinetwork wrote: post #212

Someone remind me again why GPUs need 600 watts? I never liked the concept of having to plug a power cable into a GPU, but these new connectors are just terrible...

> Someone remind me again why GPUs need 600 watts?

Imagine a GPU that uses fewer watts. Now imagine someone in charge of the high end models makes it bigger until they hit a limit.

That limit is generally either chip size or power, and chips have gotten so dense that it's usually not chip size.

That's why the very top GPU uses as much power as you can get it.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#254

Post by short_sells_poo »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #119
DannyBee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because they are trying to parallel like 50amps (it's 12 volt IIRC) over a few conductors to get to 600watts. If it becomes unbalanced due to any number of reasons, none of those individual cables can come close to handling it - they will all generate enough heat to melt lots of things. Conservatively, they'd have to be 8awg each to be able to handle the full load without melting if they ended up taking the f…

If only we had connectors which could actually handle such currents. Maybe something along the lines of an XT90, but no Nvidia somehow wants to save a bit of space or weight on their huge brick of a card. I don't get it.

This is the top end halo product. What's wrong with pushing the envelope? Should we all play tetris because "what's wrong with block graphics?".

I'm not defending the shitty design here, but I'm all for always pushing the boundaries.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#255

Post by happyopossum »

anankaie wrote: post #188
tass wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also 20 amp circuits which are common. Many houses run circuits that are rated for 20 amps even if they don't have the right outlet for it so this is an inexpensive upgrade for most.

I did not realize the outlet impacts the amperage… Is it a rating issue, or is there an actual part there that will trip?

It’s the whole chain - 20a outlets typically require 12ga wire instead of 14ga, a 20 amp breaker, and yes - the outlet is different. The 20a outlets add a horizontal opening to one of the 2 vertical slots, making a sideways T shape. Devices that require 20 amps will have one of those horizontal prongs to ensure you don’t plug them in to a 15 amp outlet.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#256

Post by ziddoap »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #216
ziddoap wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably, the point is that a working car is more complicated & cheaper (in this case) than the graphics card, while the graphics card can't figure out how to make a connector. I read it as a kind of funny comment making a broader point (and a bit of a jab at nVidia), not a rigorous comparison. I think you might be taking it a bit more seriously than was intended.

An old legacy car is definitely not more complicated than designing and manufacturing a cutting edge silicon made for high performance compute. The price difference is just the free market supply and demand at work. People and businesses pay more for the latest Nvidia GPUs than for an old car because for their use case it's worth it, they can't get a better GPU from anywhere else because they're complex to design and…

>An old legacy car is definitely not more complicated than designing and manufacturing a cutting edge silicon made for high performance compute.

A car is more complicated than a connector, at least.

Anyways, the rest of your comment is again taking a humorous one-liner way too seriously. Thanks for the econ lesson though, I guess. I liked the part where you explained to me the basics of supply and demand like I am in 5th grade.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#257

Post by [deleted] »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #119
DannyBee wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because they are trying to parallel like 50amps (it's 12 volt IIRC) over a few conductors to get to 600watts. If it becomes unbalanced due to any number of reasons, none of those individual cables can come close to handling it - they will all generate enough heat to melt lots of things. Conservatively, they'd have to be 8awg each to be able to handle the full load without melting if they ended up taking the f…

If only we had connectors which could actually handle such currents. Maybe something along the lines of an XT90, but no Nvidia somehow wants to save a bit of space or weight on their huge brick of a card. I don't get it.

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#258

Post by janalsncm »

userbinator wrote: post #56
readingnews wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Connectors are actually extremely difficult to make. While your points listed are valid, we have been making connectors that overcome these points for decades, in some cases approaching the century mark. >> I'm not surprised at all that they are running into issues here, these cards are pulling 500+ watts. That is a LOT of current. Nonsense. I used to work at an industrial power generation company. 500W is _nothin…

One word: cost. Look up how much industrial/automotive connectors cost, and you'll see the huge difference in quality.

That would be relevant if the margins on GPUs weren’t astronomical.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#259

Post by marcyb5st »

I hope that a brand that produce PSUs and GPUs develop a higher voltage rail and a card that goes with it as an open standard.

Wishful thinking, I know.

Especially because I don't even know if they can drift from the nVidia/AMD specs that much before being sanctioned or something.

Yeah, they will be more expensive, but I'd rather pay few bucks more and be safer/not to worry to burn my house down.

Re: Nvidia's RTX 5090 power connectors are melting

#260

Post by xg15 »

rasz wrote: post #201
Workaccount2 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in power electronics and there are ample connectors that can handle any type of power requirement. What is happening in the computer space is that everyone is clinging to an old style of doing things, likely because it is free and open, and suggestions to move to new connectors get saddled with proprietary licensing fees. D-sub power connectors have been around forever (they even look like the '90s still) and…

You are proposing connector with exposed live 12V pins.

Not a hardware guy, but I wonder if that's a factor in connector choice. Basically, if a significant fraction of PC building is done by teens or young adults building their gaming rig in their living room, with neither formal training nor oversight, do designers have to make sure this is "teenage proof"?
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