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Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

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Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#251

Post by [deleted] »

SideQuark wrote: post #228
ryandrake wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things, or even the combination of all of these things, allows an individual to shield 100% of their income from taxes, the way corporations shield their income from taxes.

If you have enough rolloverloss from one year to another, then you can pay 0%, same as a corporation. In fact, over 40% of people pay zero federal income tax, and a significant amount get lots of govt money, so they’re getting effectively a negative income tax. The vast majority of corp pay income tax, unless (and this is nearly never many years in a row) they have such tax rollovers from prev year. Now, they also st…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#252

Post by freeone3000 »

SideQuark wrote: post #228
ryandrake wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of these things, or even the combination of all of these things, allows an individual to shield 100% of their income from taxes, the way corporations shield their income from taxes.

If you have enough rolloverloss from one year to another, then you can pay 0%, same as a corporation. In fact, over 40% of people pay zero federal income tax, and a significant amount get lots of govt money, so they’re getting effectively a negative income tax. The vast majority of corp pay income tax, unless (and this is nearly never many years in a row) they have such tax rollovers from prev year. Now, they also st…

I think it’s outrageous that the IRS doesn’t just compute taxes for us. And I think it’s ridiculous US citizens have to file regardless of where they are.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#253

Post by iforgot22 »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #217
iforgot22 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll stop "thanking" Obama for the ACA when health premiums go back to something sensible. But honestly I liked everything else about him.

Let's think a lot more widely here: how many things in your life suddently got explosively more expensive over a decade. How many of those do you think would have not surged if it wasn't for [insert single thing here]? It's the same logic people use to suppress minimum wage. But prices keep going up. Almost like that's not as big a factor as we thought.

How many other things in my life suddenly doubled in price within a couple of years? Can't think of any.

I know prices of everything tend to double every 10-20 years, but that's what happens when you double the money supply every 10 years.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#254

Post by iforgot22 »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #176
iforgot22 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something is wrong with the tax law if this is an accounting trick that only a few companies can use this effectively, which I suspect it is. I also suspect that the CEO of Tesla supposedly being placed in charge of federal agencies will somehow reduce that future tax bill. Corporate tax doesn't have to be a thing, but if it is, it needs to be applied fairly.

> Something is wrong with the tax law if this is an accounting trick that only a few companies can use effectively, which I suspect it is. Yes only a few companies could use this, but the main factor here is not really a trick. Any other company that sells electric cars and has 0-3% profit could do the same thing. If you get a small tax credit per sale, and your taxes are 21% of 3% of your sales revenue, and that mak…

I was referring to the advanced depreciation, not the EV tax credits. Tesla's profit margin is more than 3%. Per the calculations someone else did here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42893563 Tesla supposedly got $300M in tax credits, which is much less than 21% of their profit.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#255

Post by iforgot22 »

dark_glass wrote: post #84
whymauri wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Only people can pay taxes. But corporations are people..? Can't have it both ways right :/ Unless I'm missing something here.

Yes. Corporations are made of people, and they produce goods and services for other people. The people that compose that corporation pay the tax, or the people they sell to.

The owners of a corp aren't the ones paying tax. The corp has its own balance sheet.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#256

Post by iforgot22 »

machomaster wrote: post #175
dark_glass wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Corporations are made of people, and they produce goods and services for other people. The people that compose that corporation pay the tax, or the people they sell to.

You don't understand that in the US's capitalism corporations are people. That's why they are able to use infinite money to influence elections (because in American CAPITALism, corporations' usage of money equals free speech and you can't limit people' speech). Yes, I agree, it's absolutely insane. Google "Citizens United v. FEC" Supreme Court decision. Conveniently, they are people only when it comes to corruption a…

"The court held 5–4 that the freedom of speech clause of the First Amendment prohibits the government from restricting independent expenditures for political campaigns by corporations including for-profits, nonprofit organizations, labor unions, and other kinds of associations."

? I don't see what's insane about this

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#257

Post by iforgot22 »

kccoder wrote: post #205
chrislongss wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as it should be. Criticize the policies, not an administration led by a party you don't align with.

What about criticizing a lawless administration, filled to the gills with unqualified sycophants, bereft of empathy, kindness, and all human decency?

Two wrongs don't make a right. A news source that endorses a political candidate is difficult to trust, and plenty of them don't.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#258

Post by iforgot22 »

SideQuark wrote: post #136
ryandrake wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about simply the principle: 1. I should be able to deduct the same sorts of things from my individual income that corporations routinely deduct from their income. If a corporation can legally shield all of their income from taxes, why can't I shield all of my income from taxes? Corporations can deduct the costs of all the things they have to do to make money and do weird depreciation tricks, but I cannot deduct t…

You do. The biggest of all tax giveaways is the home mortgage deduction and tax deduction on employer paid healthcare. The tax sheltered things like retirement accounts, HSAs, Roths, college savings plans, energy credits, home improvement credits, car breaks, annd do on, are also huge tax giveaways to citizens. Those are the biggest tax breaks in all US law, far larger than all of corporate breaks combined. Then, as…

You mention mortgage interest deduction, EV tax credits, and energy credits. I'm pretty sure corps qualify for all of those, and with no SALT cap. Then they get to deduct food, rent, utilities, and car ownership/depreciation, which I can't. And their tax rate is flat. There's a reason people find loopholes to push personal expenses into businesses, not the other way around. I would most likely pay less tax if I were somehow a corporation, even if it meant losing my 401(k) and HSA.

Of course, you can't literally compare corps to people. Their profits are ultimately paid out to individuals and taxed again. People don't exactly have revenues. So I'm not saying the current way is wrong, but the statement you're responding to isn't ignorant.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#259

Post by peterfirefly »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #250
peterfirefly wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem was low average productivity naturally leading to low average consumption. The problem was not low taxation.

Many of our modern conveniences and improvements are the direct result of public investments made possible through taxation. Without this funding, the level of development and quality of life we enjoy today might not have been achievable. If you prefer living in 1913, you're a hopeless romantic.

And most are not. I repeat that the problem back then was a low average productivity and not insufficient taxation.

Re: Tesla Paid Zero Federal Income Tax in 2024, Despite $2.3B in Income

#260

Post by [deleted] »

peterfirefly wrote: post #259
spiderfarmer wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of our modern conveniences and improvements are the direct result of public investments made possible through taxation. Without this funding, the level of development and quality of life we enjoy today might not have been achievable. If you prefer living in 1913, you're a hopeless romantic.

And most are not. I repeat that the problem back then was a low average productivity and not insufficient taxation.

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