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Garmin's –$40B Pivot

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Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#251

Post by stouset »

jamespo wrote: post #247
stouset wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What strikes me is that I alread have a central authoritative store of health and fitness information on my Apple devices bundled directly into the operating system but every single app in that category wants me to use them as the single database of truth instead. Even when they have integration with Health! Everything goes into Apple Health but individual apps can barely talk to one another. Oura won’t pull heart ra…

What's it like getting data out of Apple Health?

There’s a very easily-discovered button to export everything. It goes to some sort of XML format that I haven’t bothered to inspect but which I assume others have written extractors for.

I don’t think I really care all that much though. Other than older heart rate data from my watch and workouts recorded on my watch, all the data is already stored in the apps that created it: Strava, Oura, Garmin, Polar, etc. If I went elsewhere, those apps will still have all their own collected information.

I don’t mind that those apps are the source of truth for stuff collected from their own devices. I just want them all to share data with and communicate to one another through Apple Health instead of insisting they can only use data they directly collected (Garmin, Oura, Polar) or requiring direct integration between every pairwise set of apps (Polar, Strava).

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#252

Post by cadamsdotcom »

The ecosystem around these devices is amazing. The data is openly available in ideal formats for sharing.

When your workout syncs from your watch to the Garmin app, Garmin ships it to a whole bunch of other places - a whole data pipeline kicks off across the Internet at no cost to you.

If only more of the software world would settle into this type of equilibrium, instead of the competitive data hoarding we see from so many other companies, it’d be a far better world for consumers and competition.

Garmin’s business model doesn’t depend on hoarding data. Hope it stays that way!

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#253

Post by blairbeckwith »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #195
maskull wrote: post #2

I'm amazed apple has got by with a 3/4 day charge for 10 generations while garmin has had products with a 7+ day charge for years.

That's because the analysis about Garmin is wrong. None of that stuff matters. Garmin's competition is having kids. Moms and dads will buy Apple Watches because it is more compatible with the having kids lifestyle. In contrast you don't need a dive computer or a bicycle thing when you have no time for hobbies. So an Apple Watch with a diving app meets the demand for aspirational hobbies, which of course, aspirations…

I don't know if you have any data to back up your claims, and I have nothing to back mine up but anecdotes but – all of the most active people I know have kids and all my single friends are amongst the most sedentary.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#255

Post by petee »

nice_scott wrote: post #241
petee wrote: post #112

We'll have to see over the next couple years how this pans out; early in 2024 they changed their Connect app to be significantly less usable, angering their core use base with many vowing to move to competitors. While some is handwaving, others are definitely not coming back due to how Garmin has handled it. The Connect app was a big part of their watches' popularity. For what its worth they managed to lose 0.4 of th…

I recently got into using the connect app. What were some notable changes that made the app less usable and upset their core user base?

Another user said they may have since improved the changes, so I'll have to check it out again. But originally the main interface was a list-style of recent or relevant stats shown, clicking would bring you to more in-depth stats. Most of the time all you needed was the main screen. They swapped that out for a grid of small widgets that showed less data, and you could only choose a few. Clicking would bring you to a stats screen but with less info than before, and often requiring clicking even deeper to find common items.

So lack of customization, and lots of deep-navigation. Garmin's initial action was silence, eventually they said to get over it its not going back. Apparently it got poor feedback in Beta too, so this was just a change they decided chug through with despite a very large outcry on their forums.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#256

Post by canucker2016 »

gausswho wrote: post #125
MarkusWandel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-Appleista, what strikes me most is their "silo" mentality. Most of the iPhone /iWatch using fitness types I know log their stuff inside the Apple cloud, and do not crosspost to Garmin Connect or Strava so the non-Appleistas don't see their stuff. Whereas the Garmin/Strava world is relatively open. I can for example take the original Forerunner (pictured in the article) and upload stuff from it to the Garmin…

They may be less gatekeeping than others, but they don't let you get data off the device without a cloud account, at which point all your biometrics are for sale.

On my Garmin Forerunner watch, under Settings/System/USB Mode - change to "Mass Storage" from "Garmin".

I connect the watch via USB cable and copy the FIT files over to the computer.

Looks like there's the same setting in a similar location on the Epix watch - https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-E5C62F3F-DCE3-4...

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#257

Post by canucker2016 »

gausswho wrote: post #53

I picked up an Epix Pro during the holiday sales. Aware that they'd had a data breach, I was dismayed to find there is no way to get the data off it without using an app and that app won't even start without an account. Despite the settings, wouldn't show up as a storage device when connected (on Linux). I noped right out. Reeked of surveillance capitalism. Shame because I did like the hardware. Is there a dumb watch…

The Epix watches seem to have a setting to switch the watch to Mass Storage USB mode - see https://www8.garmin.com/manuals/webhelp/GUID-E5C62F3F-DCE3-4...

Did you change this setting on the watch?

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#258

Post by cozzyd »

organsnyder wrote: post #245
cozzyd wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you can still charge it daily if you want...

The advantage of a watch that only needs to charge every few weeks is that it likely doesn't need a lot of time to top it off if you're charging it daily (unless it has a massive battery or only charges extremely slowly). When I wore Pebble watches, charging them while I was in the shower was plenty of time to last until I showered the next day. With my Apple watches, I've gotten into the habit of not wearing them fo…

indeed, I try to do that when I remember with my Garmin Venu 2 (~11 day battery life). Otherwise, I charge it on weekends while I'm home doing nothing.

It's also nice because most trips I take are under 11 days so I don't need to remember to pack the charger.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#259

Post by chinathrow »

cjrp wrote: post #152
vitorsr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Garmin's unwavering commitment to physical buttons and how you can customize what they do is what makes them the gold standard in this area for me. Most people may be unaware that Garmin has a strong foothold in the stringently regulated avionics industry, in particular in flight instruments, displays, deck and others human-machine interface products. In turn, specific regulations informed by ergonomics research ar…

That was true with something like the G1000, but their newer avionics are very much touchscreen in favour of physical buttons. See the G3X or G3000 for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21eOTAXdXLM&t=18s

Correct. Garmins GPS/NAVCOM flagship, the GTN series is 95% touch.

Re: Garmin's –$40B Pivot

#260

Post by doctorpangloss »

blairbeckwith wrote: post #253
doctorpangloss wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because the analysis about Garmin is wrong. None of that stuff matters. Garmin's competition is having kids. Moms and dads will buy Apple Watches because it is more compatible with the having kids lifestyle. In contrast you don't need a dive computer or a bicycle thing when you have no time for hobbies. So an Apple Watch with a diving app meets the demand for aspirational hobbies, which of course, aspirations…

I don't know if you have any data to back up your claims, and I have nothing to back mine up but anecdotes but – all of the most active people I know have kids and all my single friends are amongst the most sedentary.

I have kids and I'm very active too. I'm not saying they're not active. I'm saying they're not diving. And if they do dive, once, wouldn't they be buying an Apple Watch Ultra for Christmas, that says that it can do your dive, but also be useful every single day of the year?

In terms of data, well, the number of kids per family is trending down, marriage is trending down, relationships are trending down... I don't need to measure anything, everyone's audience is becoming the No Kids audience.

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