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The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

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Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#251

Post by steveoscaro »

ctchocula wrote: post #158
lotsofpulp wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that expensive to get an electric car charger installed? I just got two installed for $800, and the charger itself is $420 each. Even if a circuit panel had to be upgraded and some wire needed to be run, surely it is only a couple thousand extra at most.

A new 200A electrical panel costs $5000-6000 to be installed with a permit in SV. If you want to run 50A wire for an L2 charger that might be $1000-2000 more. Getting close to $10000, so I'd say it is fairly expensive.

Or just run an extension cord from your dryer outlet with a splitter. $100 and done.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#252

Post by AtlasBarfed »

steveoscaro wrote: post #250
gnkyfrg wrote: post #97

Toyota explicitly stated that the hybrid strategy spreads the lithium out to more cars, increasing fuel economy across the fleet. Tesla's 800hp super cars aren't green and never were. They consume lithium to such a degree that they are, maybe even worse in the long run. Using 800 horses to transport one human never could be efficient, no matter the technology.

Spoke like a true oil industry executive

The argument still works for another 10 year cycle. Hybrids are not the enemy. Pure ICEs are.

Hybrids (well phevs) can deliver huge % of electrification and efficiency while transitioning older, dumber, and more conservative drivers to EVs, home charging, without having to plan

As to the article, I don't think they were influential enough. This obviously wouldn't have happened with the Bush administration, but maybe in some parallel world where Gore when the election, we might have gotten a mandate that all consumer vehicles needed to be hybrids or phevs within 10 years.

The amount of gas that would have saved, The amount of development it would had on batteries and electric drivetrains, would have further paved the way for decarbonization.

Why semis did not become hybrids is beyond me. The electric drivetrain provides so much more torque and smooth acceleration, while providing obviously regenerative braking.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#253

Post by l8rlump »

jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

See here for a counterpoint on hybrids putting less stress on their engines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s ("It Turns Out, Hybrids Are Really Hard On Engines")

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#254

Post by thebruce87m »

gnkyfrg wrote: post #97

Toyota explicitly stated that the hybrid strategy spreads the lithium out to more cars, increasing fuel economy across the fleet. Tesla's 800hp super cars aren't green and never were. They consume lithium to such a degree that they are, maybe even worse in the long run. Using 800 horses to transport one human never could be efficient, no matter the technology.

The lithium isn’t consumed.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#255

Post by danw1979 »

_yb2s wrote: post #167
jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

The Prius system is an excellent design, but as someone that loves driving, it just feels and drives awful- little tactile or audible feedback on any of the controls, and really unresponsive to inputs- arguably dangerously so. My regular daily driver is an old Porsche Boxster, and by comparison the Prius feels like I’m driving a dishwasher or playing a cheap arcade game- it will get you there reliably but it’s just n…

I don’t the comparison with a sports car is particular fair.

I regularly drive both a 2011 Prius and a 2023 BMW X1 “mild hybrid”, I’ve also test driven an iX1 electric and X3 “real” hybrid recently (all practical family cars).

In order of increasing accelerator-input-to-actually-moving (at low speed) delay:

iX1 electric (best) Prius X3 hybrid X1 mild hybrid (worst, dangerously bad)

That is to say, every time I get into the 14 year old Prius I think “wow this is nippy” after having driven the 2 year old X1, which we’ve nicknamed “the lag wagon”.

Toyota really nailed the driving ergonomics of the gen2 Prius, given the constraints. Yes, it’s a slow to accelerate at high speeds, but it’s still really nice drive around town.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#256

Post by Cumpiler69 »

hedora wrote: post #46
kla-s wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah its a mixed bag in germany in my eyes. All of the big brands have a real electric platform minus BMW. 800V isnt pioneered with them either. VDA is pressuring for HVO100 bs. Mercedes just pulled back on the electric only strategy. I guess they figured that most of the added value is with the batteries and being deeply integrated there and thats not really their cup of tea, so far at least. There where Taycans for…

What’s wrong with BMW’s platform? The technology (e.g. heat pump, carbon fiber/aluminum body), user interface and fuel economy (not range) of my old i3 are all competitive with the 2022-2024 EVs I’ve driven. Unless they somehow regressed 10 years, the only obvious problem with the new BMW EVs is that none offer a third row.

i3 is fugly as hell and not many bought it.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#257

Post by ProllyInfamous »

The Toyota Camry Hybrid transfored the way I automobile.

A brother recently transferred title of "most dangerous driver in the family" from me to somebody else... so I've got that going for me (plus: have never been pulled over in my re-vamped hybrid lifestyle).

Can you smell the 50mpg+ smug?

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#258

Post by perryizgr8 »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #186
Tade0 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A while ago I rented a regular car and what bugged me was all the additional vibration associated with parts grinding and rolling against each other. Also at least once I almost went "woah, horsie" as the car lunged forward because I tapped the accelerator a moment after it shifted to a lower gear without me noticing. It used to be even worse. I had an opportunity to drive a 2005 BMW 7 series in a city where the spee…

> it couldn't decide which gear to pick. I haven't felt that since I've been driving my CVT ICE for so long. Then again, a coworker told me the CVT is likely to break before 100,000 miles. So.... thinking of buying a Prius. I love Priuses.

I think toyota cvts last longer than the lifetime of the car.

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#259

Post by alternatex »

l8rlump wrote: post #253
jgilias wrote: post #36

I sometimes chuckle that most of the cool Lexuses are now Priuses under the hood! But that’s a good thing. I own a Toyota Corolla hybrid myself, and hybrids are one of those things that I can say I’ve completely changed my mind about. I used to dislike the idea of hybrids, because I assumed that the overall system complexity must be higher than either an ICE, or an EV. And I’m a sucker for simple systems, so I though…

See here for a counterpoint on hybrids putting less stress on their engines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s ("It Turns Out, Hybrids Are Really Hard On Engines")

Is that a counterpoint considering the conclusion of the video is that Toyota has done the things necessary to mitigate the issues?

Re: The Toyota Prius transformed the auto industry

#260

Post by jgilias »

numpad0 wrote: post #224
usrusr wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me the key element is that it can run different transmission ratios: wether that's in discrete steps or a continuous ramp, that's an implementation detail. BEV (most of them) don't have that, the Prius has. When I read GP post my (surprised) impression from the "no gearbox" claim was that the Prius started as a serial hybrid. (it did not)

Is THS actually capable of varying transmission ratio? I thought it can modulate resistance but not actually change gear ratio.

Transmission ratio yes, as in, what part of engine power gets transmitted to the wheels. Individual gear ratios of course not.
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