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London's 850-year-old food markets to close

bbc.co.uk

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Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#251

Post by briandear »

Yeul wrote: post #188
tempusalaria wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reality is that these are not culturally significant institutions and most people in London don’t care. Ordinary Londoners rarely use these markets, and they mostly sell to restaurants, and require major financial support. Not everything from the past is good. We don’t still run coal power plants in London just to get that historic smog. They were already planning to move both markets way out of central London (t…

The reality is that the restaurant food is brought by trucks from warehouses. There are special companies that specialise in providing everything that a restaurant needs. Aside from Michelin star places chefs don't go around buying anything the whole ordering is highly automated.

There are over 80 Michelin Star places in London. Not a small number of restaurants. Not to mention hundreds more that aspire to get a star and care deeply about being Michelin-level quality.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#252

Post by madaxe_again »

Animats wrote: post #247

It took this long? Paris closed Les Halles in 1973.[1] New York's Fulton Fish Market moved in 2005.[2] A wholesale food market is a transportation hub. It needs good road access. If you can't easily get semitrailer trucks to it, it's in the wrong place. At one time Smithfield was served by underground freight rail, but that shut down long ago. Smithfield has a setup where maybe eight semis can parallel park on the st…

Billingsgate already moved back in the 80’s, to a facility with modern loading bays, road access, etc., so while what you say about Smithfield is true, it isn’t for billingsgate.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#253

Post by madaxe_again »

rgreekguy wrote: post #239
DrBazza wrote: post #175

The Corporation of London own the land Billingsgate is on. They've been looking to redevelop this for over a decade since the land's value is now magnitudes more than when it was built because of Canary Wharf and the new Canary Wharf Crossrail station. It's prime real estate land, possibly the best plot in London right now. And so is Smithfield, or at least the land that Museum of London is on, and they're moving to…

Britain keeps on having a bad record with preserving stuff, I see.

Oh, Britain preserves stuff alright - they jar and pickle the past into a pastiche, while discarding the institutions and functions that they once had.

We have converted many Victorian train stations into car parks, public baths and lidos into car parks, and excellent examples of Georgian and Elizabethan architecture into car parks. Even Stonehenge is a drive-by attraction and car park, now.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#256

Post by bruce511 »

Fnoord wrote: post #245
bruce511 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is a system of government. It asks people to vote on important decisions (like brexit) and to choose leaders to make day-to-day decisions on their behalf. It is, of course, the system favored in the West and evident touted as the "best system". Being 'best' of course does not necessarily make it good. Large groups of people are easily swayed based on fear, anger, perception, rhetoric and so on. The implicat…

Your argument only works when politicians don't lie, when they're sincere, when people are not getting deceived. It is unreasonable to ask of people of low and moderate intelligence who lack time cause overburdened with work to do proper research in a world of fake news (read: propaganda) and micro targeting. Honestly, I find it victim blaming. For example, Trump distanced himself from Project 2025. Now the people he…

I'm merely saying how democracy works. If democracy fails because the people who have the voting power are too unintelligent (your words, not mine) then that's a flaw in the political system.

Personally I think people are plenty intelligent. (OK, there are a few morons, and they get good TV time, but for the most part people are smart enough.)

Blaming the electorate is not victim blaming. Since they hold the power they can't be victims.

It is the goal, and function, of politicians to persuade the people. If the people choose to follow one source of media, that is up to them.

Trumps lies are easily debunked to anyone who cares. Lots of voters don't care that he lies. Lots of voters believe whatever they want. Democracy, as a system of govt explicitly puts the power in these peoples hands. That's not a bug, it's the killer feature.

Trump was very clear in his goals. Tarrifs, deportation, abortion ban, IVF under threat. No support for Ukraine. 100% for Israel, pro Palestinian support suppressed. Ignore climate change. Demonize minorities. He ran on these policies, the majority voted for them, he'll do what they asked for.

Look, all systems are fine and dandy when the politicians have good intentions. Equally all systems fail when bad actors come onto the stage. But hey, democracy is the best option right?

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#257

Post by Aromasin »

mock-possum wrote: post #234
Neil44 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they'll name the new luxury apartments nice names, that nod to the former history of the site.

> Welcome to Fish Market Flats, where history meets modern luxury! Nestled in the heart of the city, this iconic landmark has been reimagined into a vibrant mixed-use community that blends timeless charm with contemporary living. Once a bustling hub of maritime commerce, Fish Market Flats is now a beacon of urban sophistication, offering high-density condos designed to elevate your lifestyle. > Picture yourself wakin…

> 1-bedroom studio flats, shared ownership, starting as low as £1.4m. Larger apartments PoA.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#258

Post by fecal_henge »

DocTomoe wrote: post #233
fecal_henge wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That value buys excellent public transport, and generally wages that let you trade in £1000 banger for £3000 one.

I don't know which planet you live on, but London's public transit is hellish on days where it works. The fact that there seems to be industrial action every other week, that the subway is slowly heating up, and major stations are virtually always overcrowded is not something I even take into consideration. Not when the local trains have a toss-of-a-coin chance of actually showing up at all, or even in a configuratio…

Certainly not my experience of London transport. I get a combination of trains, tubes and busses most days. I also grew up in rural England so I know what shitty transport is really like.

Re: London's 850-year-old food markets to close

#260

Post by interludead »

DrBazza wrote: post #175

The Corporation of London own the land Billingsgate is on. They've been looking to redevelop this for over a decade since the land's value is now magnitudes more than when it was built because of Canary Wharf and the new Canary Wharf Crossrail station. It's prime real estate land, possibly the best plot in London right now. And so is Smithfield, or at least the land that Museum of London is on, and they're moving to…

This feels like another instance of prioritizing short-term financial gain over preserving history and community infrastructure
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