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> If something sounds good too good to be true, it usually is. You mean like antibiotics? Or vaccines?
> usually
Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
251–260 of 461 posts
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#252I've been warning people for a long time that the drug only fakes the signal of fullness from the gut, and only makes you starve yourself. It doesn't actually fix anything.
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Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#253[flagged]
I think this is superstition. Vaccines are a medical intervention that have almost zero downside. There isn’t some mythical cosmic cost-benefit scale that needs to be balanced in every new technology that is deployed.
Vaccines and antibiotics and germ theory are all things that seem “too good to be true” but nevertheless are. Should we be worried that clean fusion power, once commercialized and practical, is going to somehow cause some catastrophic unknown future event just because it yields immeasurable benefit to us?
I think this is just another form of magical thinking.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most kill you. If I didn't misread articles on ozempic, they can cause digestive problems where food rots in your stomach. Bad depression was another side effect which blows my mind since you'd think looking better would make you feel great. And these were the minor things.
> digestive problems where food rots in your stomach I assume you mean gastroparesis - this is an extremely rare side effect > Bad depression Again, pretty rare side effect. If you think these are the minor things I'm confused as to what you think the major side effects are.
Gastroparesis is literally the method of action of GLP1 agonists. It slows gastric motility. Gastroparesis is literally slowed motility of the stomach (where 20% of food stays in your stomach after 4 hours). It doesn't matter why, that is the literal diagnostic criteria, ergo it literally causes gastroparesis.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#255[flagged]
On the other hand, being overweight takes years off your life: "Specifically, we found that BMIs from 40 to 44 were associated with 6.5 years of life lost, but this increased to 8.9 for BMIs from 45 to 49, 9.8 for BMIs from 50 to 54, and 13.7 for BMIs from 55 to 59." I think for some people the roi is measurable and reasonable. https://irp.nih.gov/blog/post/2020/01/extreme-obesity-shaves...
Being obese takes years off your life. Being slightly overweight is associated with best longevity.
BMIs from 40 to 44 is massively obese, not overweight.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#256There are a lot of people here citing loss of muscle mass as a side effect of GLP-1s, when the reality is that weight loss almost always comes with muscle loss. For me, that hasn't even been the case. I'm down 40lbs on a relatively low dose of Semaglutide and my muscle mass has moderately increased over the last 6 months. The hysteria over this is totally unfounded.
Your sample size is one. Imagine how a study saying this would get picked apart if their sample size was one. You have no idea whether you're in the middle of the normal distribution bell curve or at one of the extreme ends.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#257I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…
It's why the medication should never be given to people on its own (although I'm sure it happens all the time), but should be a part of a comprehensive weight loss, exercise and dietary plan. Same with other invasive weight loss treatments, you can't just get a gastric belt or whatever fitted if you ask for it, you need to do the work yourself first, and you get a diet plan assigned if you do end up with one.
It's the same with e.g. human growth hormones, one theory is that Elon Musk is / has used them, but without the weight training that should go with it, so his body has developed really weirdly.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#258It may be worth considering that a heavier person needs a stronger heart than a lighter one. The heavier weight also acts as a constant load/training. Without some degree normalization we won‘t know whether this is normal or concerning.
This is a very thoroughly studied phenomenon. The hearts of obese people are generally more muscular as you say, but not in a good way, so I wouldn't compare this to training. In overweight people, the heart walls get thicker and the volume of blood that the heart pushes out with each stroke is decreased as a result. This means their heart needs to beat faster to reach the right throughput and their heart is under constant strain, kind of like having your car overrevved at all times.
With exercise, the heart muscles grow in a different way, and the volume of blood contained inside is not reduced. So without looking at the heart itself, we can't even tell whether a lot of muscle is good or bad, we also need to look at the rest of the context.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#259I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…
I've heard this feedback on Ozempic et al from my wife who is a GP some 6 months ago, when I mentioned how US is too much in comfort zone and addicted to HFCS to actually lose weight permanently, ever, so in good old weight-losing fads fashion they will just throw money at the problem, experiencing somewhat variable success and who knows what bad side effects.
My wife told me exactly this - potentially all muscle mass loss (and she made sure I understood that 'all' part), yoyo effect once stopping, potentially other nasty long term/permanent side effects, and overall just a bad idea, attacking the problem from a very wrong direction. Just look at musk for example - he pumps himself with it obsessively and the results even for richest of this world are... not much there (or maybe his OCD binging would make him 200kg otherwise so this is actually some success).
Then all the folks come who say how to helped them kickstart a positive change, like its something against those facts above. All the power to you, just don't ignore facts out there and don't let emotions steer your decisions. You only have 1 health and it doesn't recharge that much, and that short time we have on this pale blue dot is significantly more miserable and shorter with badly damaged health.
Re: Weight-loss drug found to shrink muscle in mice, human cells
#260I'm not commenting specifically on the heart-muscle aspect of the study, but it shouldn't be a surprise that the weight loss from this drug is significantly attributable to muscle loss; it almost always is when dieting. It's the same with keto/low-carb or any other kind of caloric-restrictive dieting (which Ozempic facilitates). The modern weight-loss programs I'm seeing now (at least those aimed mostly at middle-age…
For the people who lift weights while on this/these drugs, how much lean muscle do they lose? The point is is that most people lose muscle because they’re not lifting. You will lose muscle if you lose weight no matter the cause, if you are not lifting weights.
I know 2 competitive athletes (both MMA) who experimented with it. Both came off of it within ~6 weeks because of complications, mostly related to mood (they got very, very temperamental on it). The athletes in my sphere know about it but aren't interested. The 2 who experimented have a non-trivial social media presence and, ultimately, that is what drove them to experiment.