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A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

arstechnica.com

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Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#251

Post by Der_Einzige »

highcountess wrote: post #80
tcbawo wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This also applies to several other competitive industries with asymmetric information — auto repair, plumbing, and HVAC come to mind. Consumers have to place their trust in someone. It always pays to be an informed consumer. Sometimes, I guess you have to pick and choose your battles.

This is why the consequences of dishonesty in such asymmetric dynamics need to be not just major, but stunningly, shockingly severe; e.g., seizure of all assets, including homes and anything that would otherwise be protected to totally impoverish them and bar them from any professional position for life. These types of relationships are the bullseye for deterrence through sever punishment; they are deliberative offen…

I agree 10000%. Go after the mechanics who scam grandmas. Go after car sales people who scam new soldiers. Stop giving who industries a license to dismember like dentists get.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#252

Post by bondolo »

It is not a new scam. My grandmother had all of her teeth removed at about age 45 in the early 1960s to get dentures. Not all of her teeth were bad but the dentist encouraged her that removing all of the teeth was best because she didn't want to have to buy a new partial plate every time she lost another tooth.

The same dentist was offering the same to adults of any age. My mom, about age 19 at the time, was also offered it as solution to having misaligned teeth. She asked a critical question of the dentist; "Do you have dentures or are those your own teeth?" When he replied that his teeth were not dentures she "noped" right out there and still has most of her teeth to this day.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#253

Post by matwood »

tcbawo wrote: post #52
hansonkd wrote: post #31

This might sound stupid but I refuse to go to dentists that have "too nice" of an office. Over the years I have lived in several places and had a variety of dentists and one common theme that sticks with me, the nicer and higher tech the office is, the more procedures they are going to recommend you. They need to pay for the equipment and office somehow. I've had one dentist say I need 3 cavities filled. That I neede…

This also applies to several other competitive industries with asymmetric information — auto repair, plumbing, and HVAC come to mind. Consumers have to place their trust in someone. It always pays to be an informed consumer. Sometimes, I guess you have to pick and choose your battles.

Don't get me started on HVAC and plumbing. Two things that save me is I'm cheap and I don't mind a bit of suffering. My HVAC went out a couple of months ago. I diagnosed it like I would any other problem and settled on the blower fan probably went out. I call a place and guy comes out. He tested it and sure enough, broken fan. Now we get on the phone with his boss - they could do a new system on Monday (it was Friday) for $12-$13k or replace the fan next Friday because it would have to be ordered and would cost $1200. And to top it off, the guy on the phone said they needed to know now for their schedule.

First off I'm stubborn so pushing me is going to get them nowhere. Second, no way a standard Carrier fan was going to take a week. HVACs are made to be modular. Called my neighbor who is in the trades and has wholesale accounts all around town. Found a fan for $250, and swapped it out. Gave my neighbor a gift certificate to a nice restaurant in town as thanks for the help. If the original guy hadn't tried to push me, I would have happily paid the $1200. But, he made it so unreasonable I was like f'that. I'll go buy a window unit for the bedroom if I have to.

I had a similar thing happen with my hot water heater a few years ago. Offered a ~$4k to replace. I call around find one better than the existing one for $1100 and drop it in in all of 30 minutes. If the guy had said $2k I would have said yes on the spot.

I can only think that there are so many people who have zero clue about fixing things nowadays that they get fleeced.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#254

Post by Der_Einzige »

rqtwteye wrote: post #104
codingwagie wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huge amount of fraud in the dental space, even in places like NYC.

I think that’s all over the medical sector. Knee operations for which there is no proof of benefit, screenings where the result makes no difference, expensive back surgeries instead of physical therapy and exercise, expensive drugs instead of nutrition changes. There is just too much money to be made.

It’s very frustrating to find that every single high paying industry is full of fraud and scams. Lawyers are taking advantage of their clients all the time. Insurance coverage leads people to believe that chiropractors aren’t scammers!

If I can’t trust the so called most educated of our society, who can I trust?

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#255

Post by Der_Einzige »

viral007 wrote: post #47
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #2

I went to a new dentist when I was 18 because my other dentist was unavailable. He declares that I have two cavities and fills one, but doesn't use enough anesthetic. Given my bad exp with him I went back to my other dentist who's flabbergasted that there was supposedly a cavity on the other tooth. No sign of any decay. These kind of experiences are why I try to vet a new dentist very hard before trusting them, even…

Exactly the same happened to me when I was in my teens and next thing I know my dentist has drilled pretty much most of the good teeth under the name of cavity. In my 40s now and I am still paying for it as I now have to keep on visiting a dentist every year because of my constantly broken fillings. I have paid a lot out of pocket and the insurance has paid a lot on my behalf to the dentists. The cost of each filling…

I instantly distrust all dentists. I assume most of them are involved in organized crime.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#256

Post by lolinder »

warner25 wrote: post #234
thinkharderdev wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less cynical view of it is just that diagnosis of engine and dental problems is still pretty subjective so different providers will have different judgements about what constitutes a problem that needs fixing. If one dentist says you have a cavity that needs filling and another doesn't it doesn't automatically mean the first dentist is crooked. It could be the second one is wrong or it could just be that what const…

True. I'm in the Army, so I typically see Army dentists. That means that they're on salary (edited to add: in a rigidly seniority-based promotion system, working in a clinic that isn't concerned with profit and loss), not getting paid under a fee-for-service model. It also means that I see a different dentist every time I go in, due to them working interchangeably on a team and all of us moving every 1-3 years. Anywa…

> One dentist found a cavity during my annual exam, and when I showed up for my appointment to do the filling, the next dentist couldn't find the cavity.

I'm also suspicious that our teeth aren't as completely incapable of self-healing as we have long been taught. I haven't looked at the research that led people to the non-healing conclusion, but I've heard many anecdotes like yours, and I don't think it can all be attributed to fraud or mistakes.

Intuitively it also just seems odd that we would have one part of our body—and a frequently abused one no less!—that is uniquely incapable of repairing itself.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#257

Post by Der_Einzige »

nextworddev wrote: post #9

Dental profession has a rampant fraud problem in general. Personally know many dentists who scare people to upsell unnecessary procedures, extractions etc.

Lock them up. Medical fraud of all types should be punished with extreme prejudice.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#258

Post by owenversteeg »

This is not new. In 1997, William Ecenbarger, a Pulitzer-winning journalist, investigated the dental industry, going to fifty dentists in twenty-eight states, and found that most of them strongly recommended unnecessary work. In any other field it would have been a come-to-Jesus moment, prompting total reform, but the industry escaped with a mountain of PR and no change. That was nearly thirty years ago. Since then, median gross dentists' billings have increased significantly. Support for evidence-based, low-intervention dentistry is practically nonexistent in the US.

This all sounds like crackpot territory, but it is well supported by the evidence. Cochrane reviews have long been considered the gold standard in medicine for determining the efficacy of various interventions. When evaluated by Cochrane reviews, no other field fares so poorly as dentistry; nowhere else will you see such a parade of "insufficient evidence".

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#259

Post by bityard »

lolinder wrote: post #78

Dentists function similarly to mechanics for most people: they're the expert who knows everything and you know basically nothing. They tell you something is wrong and they need to do a $X00 procedure to fix it, but you have no way to validate in the moment that this is true. The funny thing is that with mechanics I think this has long been widely understood. People realize how important it is to find a trustworthy me…

Yes. In the US we seem to be trained that every medical professional is 100% truthful and knowledgeable. That is just simply NOT the case. Without going into the details, I had a fully-trained dermatologist with a PHD diagnose a sudden and severe skin condition. It turns out they got it so wrong it was hilarious. With no actual evidence or lab tests, he diagnosed it as something that was both very unlikely (borderline impossible) and mildly embarrassing, and provided several prescriptions.

After a few weeks, the prescriptions weren't helping at all and it wasn't until I got off my butt and started doing my own research that I found out it was something extremely common and obvious once you knew what to look for. I hemmed and hawed for several weeks over whether to email a reprimand to that Doctor's manager, but ultimately decided it wouldn't do any good.

ALWAYS get a second opinion when you are unsure, when the cure is expensive, or if it is (or could be) life-threatening. And for the love of Dog, do your own research. You need at least enough knowledge around the thing you are dealing with to be able to talk about it with your doctor intelligently, and be ready to challenge anything you are skeptical about. At the end of the day, NO doctor is going to care as much about the health of either your body or your pocketbook as much as you do.

Re: A new dental scam is to pull healthy teeth to sell you expensive fake ones

#260

Post by natebc »

cinntaile wrote: post #249
diogenescynic wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is really common in health care. I want to clarify it's only common is US healthcare. We're rally the only country in the world paying exorbitant prices AND getting low quality care. For instance, I once hit my head on a train while in France and had to get stitches. I was rushed to the emergency room in an ambulance, 2 nurses and a doctor immediately started helping clean the wound and stitching it up. I was i…

I don't get why they gave you antibiotics though?

Open head wound from bumping it on public transit?
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