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Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

cosmowenman.substack.com

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Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#251

Post by tirant »

wiz21c wrote: post #51
trompetenaccoun wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they lie about it then? These museums are subsidized by tax payers, not only just local money but often with additional EU funding as well. The scans were paid for by the public. This seems comically evil for no apparent reason.

Although I agree(stuff bought with tax money should go to tax payers), you do realize that many people don't see it that way. Especially when their career rely on withholding the stuff in question. Another example: if people have access to 3D scans, then they might come to the museum anymore because they can make a virtual tour... (I doubt of that, but well, it's an example) But, of course, as a tax payer, I wanted t…

> The problem, I guess, is that a museum is not there to be profitable

Well, the most democratic way we have found in the West to understand if a product or an initiative is relevant for the population is to see if it’s profitable (via sales or donations), or in other words, via the free market.

Otherwise you are imposing on the citizens the maintenance of an organization based on the criteria from either the political party in power or some bureaucrats. And we all know that their incentives are usually not aligned with their citizens, but mostly to perpetuate their position of power.

I personally also believe Museums are important to preserve our history and facilitate research, but not all types and not at all costs. And specially they should not be a nest of corruption as I have observed. So I’m most inclined to let the free market decide, which includes private foundations or wealthy individuals owning museums (e.g. Getty Center in LA).

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#252

Post by kmeisthax »

holowoodman wrote: post #87
newaccount74 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> weird, jealous hoarding mentality happening on the museums side That's exactly it. I work on a website that makes ancient artefacts accessible. A lot of them are in museums. You wouldn't believe how many museums: - don't want to show you their archive - don't want to let you take pictures - want you to share only low res pictures - want you to get permission before you can "publish" their artefacts, etc. It's extre…

That is because the stated goal of "preservation" isn't really their goal. Thats only lip-service. Their actual goal is getting visitors, and any kind of usable information in the form of photos, videos, 3d-scans, transcriptions or whatever leaving their premises is a problem. Add to that the associated huge business of tourism and you have the explanation why the state and the courts (who are usually good buddies wi…

To put a darker spin on this, a not-insignificant amount of most museum collections are stolen property. Either stolen from other European countries, stolen from countries the museum's country colonized, or stolen from another European country who stole it from a country they colonized.

And to make things even weirder, China has gone on a little-noticed crusade to steal back artifacts of Chinese origin.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#253

Post by akira2501 »

Symbiote wrote: post #24

> The court ruled that the museum’s revenue, business model, and supposed threats from competition and counterfeiting are irrelevant to the public’s right to access its scans, a dramatic rejection of the museum’s position It would have helped the museum and government ministry if this had been clear before the government-funded scanning program was started. (Maybe it was, I don't know.) I was initially sympathetic to…

Digital formats rot. Particularly 3d formats. A responsible curator would understand this and prioritize public release.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#254

Post by swiftcoder »

Symbiote wrote: post #24

> The court ruled that the museum’s revenue, business model, and supposed threats from competition and counterfeiting are irrelevant to the public’s right to access its scans, a dramatic rejection of the museum’s position It would have helped the museum and government ministry if this had been clear before the government-funded scanning program was started. (Maybe it was, I don't know.) I was initially sympathetic to…

> It would have helped the museum and government ministry if this had been clear before the government-funded scanning program was started. (Maybe it was, I don't know.)

Public access appears to have been an explicit condition of the government grant they applied to for the money to make the scans.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#255

Post by ChoHag »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #77
sokoloff wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that with the advent/improvements in AR/VR that measuring the direct sales of scan data is the wrong way to look at the losses. If many people can experience a 75% compelling viewing of the bust (or the pyramids, Galapagos, Chichen Itza, etc.), the losses in tourism to those sites is far more than the lost sales of scan data.

I doubt it. People go to see the original Mona Lisa when they can own a reproduction for less than the cost of the flight. I don't see why those who would have gone to see it would suddenly accept a reproduction just because it's AR/VR.

[dead]

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#256

Post by draven »

rpigab wrote: post #104

I am a French taxpayer. This is not the most outrageous thing about taxpayer money at work that I learned today. That would be the fact that local branches of the ministry of agriculture require wind turbine builders to put blue dyed water in concrete to make it friendly to all life or something, I'm not sure I understand, it's called Pneumatit®, and I'm not making this up. It's biodynamics, it's biogeology (neither…

I'm also a French taxpayer, I regret coming back to France every time I read about something stupid they do with our money. This Pneumatit thing is really something.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#257

Post by BlueTemplar »

Zamiel_Snawley wrote: post #241
exabrial wrote: post #240

> defend the public’s right to access all French national museums’ 3D scans of their collection If paid with taxpayer money, then yes, if not, then no. Should be open/shut. But taxes suck and lawmakers views of where money comes from is pretty jacked up these days.

I don't think public funding necessarily means that the output should be publicly available. The benefits and risks should be evaluated, as they were in this case. The results of public funding of weapons programmes and surveillance satellites are understandably concealed, this museum situation is analogous despite the risks being significantly less consequential.

The law has a few exceptions, like "state secrets". This case doesn't seem to fit any of them.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#258

Post by BlueTemplar »

dagenleg wrote: post #223
kardos wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, to be commercialized and privatized by the author. privatize: "transfer (a business, industry, or service) from public to private ownership and control." The outcome here does not include privatizing the scans by the author! I'm not sure we read the same article

You're quite right, actually "privatization" would be a wrong term here, but I feel like my point still stands. I am completely supportive of the release of the cultural heritage digitisations into the public domain, and I think mandating a release under the non-commercial license would be a good solution. Equally, I think it should be possible to license these for commercial use, at a reasonable price. What I was tr…

They were already cut in, public funding was specifically used for these scans.

There could be an argument that this liberalization means these projects need larger funding, but the museum took a different road.

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#259

Post by aredox »

astrange wrote: post #230
aredox wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the complete opposite of what this story describes. And since when are the French blindly obedient? Is that really their reputation?

The idea that French people constantly fight for their rights isn't true either; they basically just love rioting. Americans interpret this as noble political activity because Americans have an incorrect belief that protesting is an effective method of political change that comes from misunderstanding Civil Rights/Vietnam protests. But when you actually see interviews with French rioters you find they're all conspira…

This is just wrong on all levels - French "manifestations" are not limited to the "gilets jaunes", which were a recent phenomenon that already died out. The gilets jaunes were mostly people who never went to a "grève" before, never participated in Labor movements, never joined a "syndicat"...

Re: Secret 3D scans in the French Supreme Court

#260

Post by creativenolo »

mmooss wrote: post #9

Anyone in the world with an internet connection can view, interact with, and download the British Museum’s 3D scan of the Rosetta Stone, for example. The public can freely access hundreds of scans of classical sculpture from the National Gallery of Denmark, and visitors to the Smithsonian’s website can view, navigate, and freely download thousands of high-quality scans of artifacts ranging from dinosaur fossils to th…

The British museums license at least is creative commons non-commercial which would likely prevent them being used as something insignificant like easter egg as a license would need to be acquired.
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