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MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

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Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#251

Post by ActorNightly »

iknowstuff wrote: post #224
ActorNightly wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s beautifully designed I hope you understand that when you say this, its pretty easy to see that you are solely in the ideological camp of liking Apple, not a rational one.

i’m talking about consistent HID, proper negative space, consistent padding and margins, copy etc rather than visuals. It’s more science than art.

And im talking about the fact that there are people who are perfectly comfortable using tmux and vim, + browser window for most of their work, or something similar like i3wm. They can say that its the best possible UI layout, and their argument is just as valid as yours.

Except they don't claim it as science.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#252

Post by ActorNightly »

newdee wrote: post #246
ActorNightly wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It’s beautifully designed I hope you understand that when you say this, its pretty easy to see that you are solely in the ideological camp of liking Apple, not a rational one.

Pot. Kettle. But just Linux for you, right?

Its not about pushing anything alternative as "the best". Its about saying that you prefer Mac OS based on your personal preferences and not trying to make up bullshit objective reasons for it like they are fact of the world, which Apple users tend to do A LOT, and I don't really understand why.

Like I use Windows solely, because I need to run CAD programs, I like to Game, and I use WSL2 for development purposes, and I prefer having everything in one place. But Im not going to make up reasons why its the "best" because it does all of that.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#253

Post by westtan »

talldayo wrote: post #139
MichaelZuo wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever tried to compare something like Ubuntu or RHEL on a per feature per function basis with Mac OS? There are literally thousands of possible combinations of accessibility features alone, that are vastly more difficult to impossible to access. Or simply don’t exist in any form. Once you add in all the default apps and functions of Mac OS, there’s likely millions of possible combinations that would take a fo…

> Have you ever tried to compare something like Ubuntu or RHEL on a per feature per function basis with Mac OS? Yes? Why would people recommend it as an alternative otherwise? I used MacOS for 5 years, left after Mojave and came back when an employer made me support MacOS. The current software experience on Mac is genuinely insufferable. Advertisements in your news, notifications begging you to try Safari, zero suppo…

Many developers do encounter similar problems when using macOS, especially when developing and running tools like Docker. macOS's resource management and performance issues are often frustrating, especially when you need to do a lot of development work. In fact, you can use other tools instead of Docker instead of Linux. As far as I know, [Servbay](https://servbay.com) does a much better job than Docker on Mac.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#254

Post by westtan »

baq wrote: post #149
vundercind wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because all operating systems are terrible but the rest are so incredibly bad that Apple’s are still by far the best, once you add up time saved by features and capabilities and subtract time lost to pain-in-the-ass brokenness. (Two decades on DOS/Windows home series and NT, at least for gaming and sometimes work, twelve years with Linux as my main desktop OS, started on Android for smartphones, before finally giving…

IME macOS is easily the most broken and user hostile from a professional developer perspective. Maybe I haven't been using it enough, only 2 years. The hardware is amazing though and no other OS can predictably wake the laptop when opening the lid and not wake it when it's closed, which is kinda a deal breaker for a laptop, so I still use it. Not particularly excited about it, would prefer a Linux laptop if it could…

I personally think that the development experience on Mac is better. I have complained about the poor development environment you mentioned before, but I successfully solved it with some new tools. On Mac, you can use Servbay or mamp to solve this problem. Servbay:https://servbay.com

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#255

Post by legacynl »

pndy wrote: post #188
KronisLV wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and visually has a great deal of Polish It's great that they translated the UI in that language! Jokes aside, I use a mix of Windows 10, Windows 11, Linux Mint (have had a few DEB and RPM distros on the desktop too) and macOS. I have to say, that all of them are serviceable. Windows is sometimes quite annoying to deal with, but has a lot of software for it (the likes of PowerToys, MobaXTerm, WinSCP, System Informer…

> It's great that they translated the UI in that language! Bit offtopic but since you nudged it: The oldest Polish localization of MacOS was done by a private company that insisted on using more "appropriate linguistically" terms that have roots in the 70s Polish IT. Tho, some people claimed it was just an attempt to separate Apple's system from Microsoft's even more dramatically. And for example instead of "icon" -…

oh my god, that person arguing for zaniechaj seems like the most obnoxious person ever.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#256

Post by legacynl »

bayindirh wrote: post #76
ta1243 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen many situations where macos laptops with a closed lid continue to perform network tasks

That's PowerNap. Depending on your settings, your Mac wakes up briefly to check e-mails, updates and sleeps again. Normally it happens only during charging, but you can enable on battery power or disable it completely. Bluetooth and wireless radios stay on for a longer while because to keep everything connected if you are moving from room to room at home or at work, also it's made possible because all radios are high…

so basically you're retracting your previous statement that the notebook sleeps as soon as you close the lid? Because doing all that shit isn't sleeping, even if their marketing calls it a 'nap'

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#257

Post by bayindirh »

legacynl wrote: post #256
bayindirh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's PowerNap. Depending on your settings, your Mac wakes up briefly to check e-mails, updates and sleeps again. Normally it happens only during charging, but you can enable on battery power or disable it completely. Bluetooth and wireless radios stay on for a longer while because to keep everything connected if you are moving from room to room at home or at work, also it's made possible because all radios are high…

so basically you're retracting your previous statement that the notebook sleeps as soon as you close the lid? Because doing all that shit isn't sleeping, even if their marketing calls it a 'nap'

No, PowerNap doesn't work like that.

When you close the lid, macOS directly sleeps, shutting down fans in ~10 seconds if you have them, reaching S3 (Suspend to RAM) state. Radios stay alive a little longer to keep any BT/Wireless connections to speed things up if you're just moving places, then they go dark as well.

If you enabled PowerNap on charging, your laptop will wake up briefly after some time (Every hour or so) after you plug it in, check mails if Apple Mail is open, check for any system updates, and sleep if there's none after fetching the mails (It'll download the updates if there are any, IIRC). If you have setup Time Machine, and the drive is available (locally or via network), PowerNap will wake the system and take a backup every 24 hours, making sure that your backups are always up to date.

Per factory settings, PowerNap on battery is off, so it'll sleep without any disturbance up to a month or so, and will hibernate when the battery is low.

So, yes, the laptop sleeps as soon as you close the lid. But wakes up periodically to make sure that everything is fetched and ready (if it's connected to power, by default).

BTW, There's an actual method called Power Nap involving short naps to recharge. It's not an Apple naming gimmick [0].

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_nap

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#258

Post by eptcyka »

akira2501 wrote: post #179

> Unfortunately apps are not required to respect the routing table Insane. Why even have one or expose it to the user if it's just suggestive fiction? Vendors really need to stop privileging themselves on users machines.

There are legitimate usecases for binding a socket to a specific interface.

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#259

Post by pndy »

legacynl wrote: post #255
pndy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's great that they translated the UI in that language! Bit offtopic but since you nudged it: The oldest Polish localization of MacOS was done by a private company that insisted on using more "appropriate linguistically" terms that have roots in the 70s Polish IT. Tho, some people claimed it was just an attempt to separate Apple's system from Microsoft's even more dramatically. And for example instead of "icon" -…

oh my god, that person arguing for zaniechaj seems like the most obnoxious person ever.

Worst thing is, he apparently still messes up KDE translation - "session" was changed to "posiedzenie", "sitting", "plenary"

Re: MacOS sometimes leaks traffic after system updates

#260

Post by gear54rus »

BenjiWiebe wrote: post #238
gear54rus wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it requires VPN when not on the same LAN for some reason...

How should it work? Send everything through a central server? Try to hole-punch through NAT? Ubiquitous IPv6 might help, but we're not there yet.

A self-hostend STUN/TURN server maybe? I don't know but I'm def not installing a VPN for this. Considering I might have another one already running. The issues that would arise from this are numerous.
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