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Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

mono-project.com

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Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#251

Post by tomtheelder »

zakki wrote: post #213
BeetleB wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may want to look at F#. Because it's .NET you have a large list of libraries you can use

For a beginner, high school but zero experience in programming, which one easier to learn, C# or F#?

Honestly this is such an interesting question. Conventional wisdom would definitely say C#, but I’ve always wondered if that’s because imperative programming is easier than functional for a beginner, or because basically everyone starts with imperative. I’d be curious to see what would happen if someone started functional first.

All that said, probably C#.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#252

Post by [deleted] »

minkles wrote: post #222
commercialnix wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've already got 300 people [..] Given the style of writing and argumentation you have prevented here, no one with leadership experience in the software industry is going to actually believe you. Maybe they're lateral to you. And, even then, arguing quantity of engineers over quality of engineers is a pretty bad argument, especially on this site. So, yeah.

I think you should look into a mirror and think hard.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#254

Post by tambourine_man »

ijidak wrote: post #238
rgovostes wrote: post #94

I always assumed Microsoft did not condone Wine or other re-implementations of their APIs (like ReactOS), but that they were protected by DMCA reverse engineering provisions and anyway too insignificant to send the legal team after. Wikipedia says, > Until 2020, Microsoft had not made any public statements about Wine. ... On 16 February 2005, Ivan Leo Puoti discovered that Microsoft had started checking the Windows R…

So, would these provisions protect a reverse engineering of CUDA? It's hazy to me when reverse engineering of APIs is and isn't allowed.

You are not alone. It’s not a well defined problem, hence lawsuits. API is also such a broad term, it’s hard to establish borders.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#255

Post by commercialnix »

minkles wrote: post #222
commercialnix wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've already got 300 people [..] Given the style of writing and argumentation you have prevented here, no one with leadership experience in the software industry is going to actually believe you. Maybe they're lateral to you. And, even then, arguing quantity of engineers over quality of engineers is a pretty bad argument, especially on this site. So, yeah.

I think you should look into a mirror and think hard.

You already posted one of the dumbest things ever posted on this site.

"no u" isn't going to change that.

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#256

Post by methods21 »

This will sound pretty dumb, but with all the amazing cross platform games written in Unity - which I thought was Mono or some form of cross platform library with .NET as one of the primary languages, I always wondered why there was not a more 'business app version' of this. After using Xamarin, Appcelerator, and dozens of other 'cross platform tools', with to be let down from ALL of them in the end and/or support dropped.... Having to support multiple platforms, esp. IOS vs. Android still seems to be stuck in the stone ages, esp. for small dev teams that can't allocate massive resources to multi-platform...

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#257

Post by IcyWindows »

dwoldrich wrote: post #194
dmw_ng wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern .net on Linux is lovely, you can initialize a project, pull in the S3 client and write a 1-3 line C# program that AOT compiles to a single binary with none of the perf issues or GIL hand-wringing that plagues life in Python. Given modern Python means type annotations everywhere, the convenience edge between it and modern C# (which dispenses with much of the javaesque boilerplate) is surprisingly thin, and the…

Do your civic duty and disable telemetry everywhere you go. :) export DOTNET_CLI_TELEMETRY_OPTOUT=1

I don't understand. How does that help cross platform?

All I see is a manager saying, "the data shows no one uses it"

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#258

Post by fortran77 »

deelowe wrote: post #136
kelnos wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Microsoft has finally realized that its animus toward projects like Wine and pre-acquisition Mono was ultimately unproductive, and a net negative for Microsoft itself. I still don't trust MS's motives in general, but I think they at least recognize that Wine/Proton helps make the Win32 and DirectX APIs a sort of de-facto cross-platform standard when it comes to things like desktop gaming, and that this is a g…

Microsoft as a company is extremely myopic. Budgets are scrutinized down to the penny every few months at very senior levels. This drives a culture of immediacy. Wine was a threat until Microsoft realized everyone in tech had moved to service based business models (aka "cloud"). Only afterwards, did they "realize" Linux as a threat to their long term viability no longer mattered.

And that's why they have a $3.08 trillion market cap

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#259

Post by tambourine_man »

pjmlp wrote: post #191
aspeckt112 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on how Xamarin performed prior to the MS acquisition, I'd guess dead. The license cost was high, and the MS acquisition came right around the time React Native and Flutter started to enter v1. I think they'd of been blown out of the water pretty quickly. At least Microsoft allowed Xamarin to get into enterprise .NET shops pretty quickly. There's a lot of B2B form based apps written in Xamarin. I worked on a pre…

Ever heard of Rotor? https://www.codeguru.com/dotnet/net-nuts-bolts-the-joy-of-ro... Or DotGNU? https://www.gnu.org/software/dotgnu/ What happened to Xamarin looks like Microsoft took whatever IP was relevant, and left everything else go, which this decision is a confirmation thereof. It is kind of interesting to see Miguel's feedback, now that he his allowed to talk about how things went down.

Where is this feedback you’re referring to?

Re: Microsoft donates the Mono Project to the Wine team

#260

Post by YoshiRulz »

nerdjon wrote: post #3

I have only used mono a couple times, but I am a bit confused by the wording here and it is likely because I don't know the full story of Mono. But: > Microsoft maintains a modern fork of Mono runtime in the dotnet/runtime repo and has been progressively moving workloads to that fork. Does that mean that this mono project and its associated repo and what is within the dotnet repo are not the same and could (if they h…

The thing the .NET team maintains is (a fork of) the Mono Runtime/JIT. Mono's implementation of the .NET Framework BCL (= stdlib) isn't part of modern .NET.
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