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Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

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Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#251

Post by mananaysiempre »

mcmcmc wrote: post #221
kmlx wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a very steep fine > > The appeals process is expected to take some four years and any fines are suspended until all legal recourses have been exhausted, according to the DPA. fine is suspended. it will take 4 years of appeals :)

Once again demonstrating that fining a corporation for criminal behavior is simply adding to their operating cost, and the lawyers will always get paid

Corporations recognize nothing but operating cost, so that’s in fact an appropriate lever. The question is if the correct amount of force is applied to it—usually not, but here I’m not so sure.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#252

Post by Y_Y »

pembrook wrote: post #240
berikv wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The counterpoint to that article is: US Big Tech could also abide to EU laws and avoid fines altogether.

US companies literally cannot abide by EU laws, because they are subject to US laws, which conflict with EU laws. This is what all these European judgements are disagreeing with. The companies are not at fault here. The governments are at fault for dropping the ball on coming to an agreement. We’re on like the 5th round of this. Compliance is impossible. Until the two governments fix this, US companies cannot operate…

In fact were talking about a Dutch company, Uber BV. If it can't abide by EU law then it shouldn't exist!

And does US law really prevent them from handling EU customer data in a compliant way? Could you give a specific example?

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#253

Post by creesch »

childintime wrote: post #181

Funny they are being fined in the Netherlands, because Uber is almost invisible there, as regular taxis have been protected. I don't have accurate data, but it's at least 15€ per inhabitant, so it seems like a very very steep fine. I can't imagine how much this is per driver, €25000? It seems the dutch regulator is saying "why don't you just go away?". The feeling is likely mutual.

Not sure if you are actually dutch, but it is explained in more detail here: https://tweakers.net/nieuws/225768/uber-krijgt-van-ap-avg-bo...

> Although the fine comes from the Dutch regulator, the investigation began in France. In June 2020, 21 Uber drivers there stepped forward to human rights organization Ligue Des Droits De L'homme Et Du Citoyen. Another 151 Uber drivers later joined that complaint. The LDH took that complaint back to the CNIL, France's national privacy regulator. The latter forwarded the complaint to the Dutch Personal Data Authority in January 2021 because Uber's European headquarters is in the Netherlands.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#255

Post by johnloeber »

snowpid wrote: post #250
qqcqq wrote: post #226

This puts the total fines from the EU on American tech businesses at $14.8B in the last few years: https://loeber.substack.com/p/20-no-more-eu-fines-for-big-te... I think this substack is good, it makes a pretty clear case that US tech companies may not leave Europe any time soon, but they wield the power in the relationship much more so than the Europeans. Those regulators are overplaying their hands.

[flagged]

Where does it say that I lived in the US my whole life? You're getting ahead of yourself.

From another blog post:

> I grew up in Europe (mostly Germany, Denmark, Switzerland). I had never even set foot outside the continent until I was 18, when I moved to the United States. I have lived here for 12 years now, with most of that in San Francisco.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#256

Post by snowpid »

johnloeber wrote: post #255
snowpid wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Where does it say that I lived in the US my whole life? You're getting ahead of yourself. From another blog post: > I grew up in Europe (mostly Germany, Denmark, Switzerland). I had never even set foot outside the continent until I was 18, when I moved to the United States. I have lived here for 12 years now, with most of that in San Francisco.

Dankeschön für die Antwort!

You might understand that I read only Bio and LinkedIn, not your whole blog. Also again very very American thinking. Im just amused.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#257

Post by acedTrex »

Y_Y wrote: post #252
pembrook wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US companies literally cannot abide by EU laws, because they are subject to US laws, which conflict with EU laws. This is what all these European judgements are disagreeing with. The companies are not at fault here. The governments are at fault for dropping the ball on coming to an agreement. We’re on like the 5th round of this. Compliance is impossible. Until the two governments fix this, US companies cannot operate…

In fact were talking about a Dutch company, Uber BV. If it can't abide by EU law then it shouldn't exist! And does US law really prevent them from handling EU customer data in a compliant way? Could you give a specific example?

You could argue that the CLOUD act is in direct conflict with European data laws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act

However, it does not prevent data at rest being stored in the EU. Only that if requested the american company has to exfiltrate it to the states.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#258

Post by creesch »

silent_cal wrote: post #245

[flagged]

Silly question, the EU simply has stricter privacy and data protection laws. As these came into effect relatively recently, a lot of these companies are trying to see what they can get away with. Or at the very least taking a calculated risk that the regulation authorities are not going after them.

So the only way to actually get them to respect these laws is by attaching actual tangible consequences to breaking them.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#259

Post by AlanYx »

pyrale wrote: post #230
AlanYx wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with you about what will happen, but it illustrates the depth of legal uncertainty that exists in architecting software systems in Europe that process personal information. Corporations can't necessarily trust the EC's own published interpretations of their own laws, nor the certification processes the EC has created, so the only risk-minimizing route is a maximally pessimistic approach about what is…

> but it illustrates the depth of legal uncertainty that exists in architecting software systems in Europe that process personal information. Oh I agree with that. EC's behaviour in that case is appalling. > Corporations can't necessarily trust the EC's own interpretations of their own laws There is a way to be safe with regards to EU law, and it's to engineer systems where European data stays in Europe. Of course, t…

It's not that easy really. Several European countries have FISA s.702 functional equivalents that enable intelligence to get orders for interception of personal information on servers and entities within their legal jurisdiction. (e.g., The French Law on Intelligence and the German BND Act)

It's easy to say that the US should just scrap s.702, but unless it's reciprocal with Europe scrapping their interception powers as well, that's a pretty unrealistic ask.

Re: Dutch DPA fines Uber €290M because of transfers of drivers’ data to the US

#260

Post by staunton »

silent_cal wrote: post #245

[flagged]

It's much harder to fine companies that break the law if they make up a substantial part of your economy. On the other hand, big US companies don't have as much lobby power in the EU, so the EU is "free" to fine them.
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