Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business • Hacker News Board

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#251

Post by otteromkram » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 3:41 AM UTC

ungreased0675 wrote: post #106

otteromkram wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read to the end? > I want to make it clear that Chase could've been an excellent banking partner. I never gave them the chance. I never told them what my business does or what I'd use the money for. I never talked to anyone (besides saying what I needed to get off the phone). This story isn't a cautionary tale about Chase, it is rather recounting my naivete as a young, first-time startup founder.

Why would any of that be necessary? They’re a bank, not your parents.

Because banks deal in finance, which is an arena rife for fraudulent activities. For example, in the us, personal savings accounts with large transactions (deposits or withdrawals over $10,000) get flagged under the 1970 Bank Secrecy Act[0] as a way to curb money laundering and related events.

You're correct; a bank isn't your parent. And, you can choose where to put your money for safekeeping. As can businesses.

But, as mentioned before, finance draws in scammers and con artists (sometimes those aren't even the bankers!) and extra measures are taken to ensure that nefarious activities are mitigated. This includes actually knowing about a business and the ownership (or authorized representative) who want to bank with an institution since corporations can easily keep beneficiaries well hidden.

Further, as businesses grow they may need more capital and other financial instruments (eg - stocks), all of which present a risk to the lender if the business isn't well understood, which could lead to unfavorable rates or declination for the business. The business can shop around, of course, but the result might just be the same and then what?

I don't really know where I'm going with this comment, but I guess the point is that Chase, et al, have regulations to follow and some of them suck.

I'm also not out to necessarily defend Chase, but as a checking account holder i haven't had anything but a great experience. And, there's no one I'd rather have on my side than the douchebags at Chase when I need to cancel or retract some financial transactions.

Cheers!

[0] https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-and-regulations/ba...

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#252

Post by xyst » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 3:44 AM UTC

good ole “anti-money laundering” (AML) system false positives. Generate too many of these and the risk departments can unilaterally close the accounts.

If you ever needed a reason for a decentralized finance, this is among the top reasons.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#253

Post by itbeho » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 4:23 AM UTC

I've had issues with both my personal and business accounts at Chase. Mostly due to the inept local branch manager. I've also had deposits flagged and delayed from clients that have been paying me for years with never an issue previously.

I'd love to switch to a new bank. Any recommendations?

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#254

Post by rootsudo » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 4:45 AM UTC

Mercury back isn’t a solution. They closed my account the first week it was opened. I didn’t need an extra bank account but I wanted to open 2-3 at the time and did so without any other issue at the different banks I chose.

I’ve used chase and other big banks to nonissue outside Zelle crap.

So I’ll wait to see the same thing with mercury. But my experience with them sucked and whenever someone Hails they were their savior I will post my experience.

Mercury bank sucks, etc.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#255

Post by londons_explore » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 6:19 AM UTC

ravenstine wrote: post #108

londons_explore wrote: post #4

Diversifying in many cases won't help you. If a bank suspects fraud, they can tell other banks about their suspicion, which will cause all banks to freeze your accounts and none will be able to tell you why.

Would this also apply to credit unions? I feel like a credit union is less likely to give a f*** about what some bank tells them, and a bank probably doesn't want to help credit unions anyway. Am I wrong?

I think most are scared about the law. "You had information that X was linked to a terrorist organisation, and yet you still let them open an account and transfer $Ym?. Big fine and/or prison".

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#256

Post by shahzaibmushtaq » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 6:56 AM UTC

ianhawes wrote: post #217

shahzaibmushtaq wrote: post #77

Everyone wants to open their first bank account in one of the big banks, I was one of those. Later I found out that not-so-famous big/small banks are far superior for SMBs. Revolut, Mercury, Meow and Payoneer (Personally using myself) are all leading online businesses.

Payoneer should be not be on that list. They recently shut down our account with zero warning. Fortunately we did not funds with them, but the account was 6 years old and had processed a considerable amount of funds outgoing to contractors.

Have you tried contacting Payoneer to find out what actually happened?

Sometimes, their built-in protection system flags unusual activity and takes action but that doesn't mean businesses using Payoneer should stop promoting Payoneer.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#257

Post by throw101010 » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 8:26 AM UTC

lisper wrote: post #250

throw101010 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At which point does this no true Scotsman stops? Controlling your keys (yes this implies a backup, all wallets guide/help you to do it these days), having access to the source code of your wallet, and being able to verify the data of Bitcoin's public and open blockchain is obviously much better than blindly trusting your bank and getting cut off from your assets at any point through NO fault of your own. > Until your…

> having access to the source code of your wallet, and being able to verify the data of Bitcoin's public and open blockchain is obviously much better than blindly trusting your bank and getting cut off from your assets at any point through NO fault of your own. Maybe for you. Not for everyone. The vast majority of people don't have the technical chops to audit a code base. They have to trust someone else to do it for…

> Maybe for you. Not for everyone.

Hence why everything tends to be public and open source for Bitcoin, so anyone who is conscientious and capable *can* do this.

Trustlessness is a scale, not a binary. It just so happens that in traditional banking you start at the very bottom of the scale and you pretty much stay there. With Bitcoin you get about as high as you can get on this scale for a form of money.

> That's a skill that many people have a much easier time picking up than coding or public-key crypto.

As much as they learn about the meanders of the traditional banking system, it still won't make them more in control of their assets, the more custodians and regulators you add between you and your assets, the less in control you are of them. And we aren't even talking about another form of control you lack with fiat currencies, their almost constant expanding supply.

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#258

Post by heavenlyblue » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 10:05 AM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #210

pdonis wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Bank may close your Accounts at any time...the Account Rules do not require the Bank to provide you with advance notice of the termination of the Accounts I assume most of the big banks probably have similar language, which would be a huge red flag to me for a small business account. But what about banks like Mercury Bank, mentioned in the article as being more supportive of small businesses? Do their terms of…

If a bank suspects you of money laundering, they cannot discuss it with you. A bank employee could go to federal prison just for leaking the existence of a suspicious activity report (SAR).

But this is bullshit though? if they indeed didn't want you to know of the SAR they would have not closed the account and let you build more of a case to arrest you

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#259

Post by crote » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 2:55 PM UTC

77pt77 wrote: post #185

forgetfreeman wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets a lot easier to be annoying when you add meatspace antics to your portfolio.

> Yes officer, this neerdowell right here.

There's quite a lot you can do which isn't illegal, but is incredibly annoying. Such as renting a billboard on the CxOs daily commute route or near their golf club. They might be able to personally ignore me, but can they also ignore their golf buddies asking questions about it?

Re: Cautionary tale on using Chase bank for indie business

#260

Post by throwaway2037 » Sat, Aug 24, 2024, 3:02 PM UTC

benzible wrote: post #9

About 10 years ago a startup I co-founded had about $3M in a Chase account. We received a notification that they were closing our account within 30 days. We weren't able to get any information but I assume this was a KYC false positive. The only thing I can think of is that we had some investors from the Middle East. We had no problem withdrawing our funds but since then, I've opened another business account and a pe…

    > I've opened another business account and a personal travel credit card with Chase, both of which were shut down within weeks

This pattern repeats itself frequently here on HN. My questions / advice are always the same. Did you send written letters to Chase to ask for an explanation? In parallel, CC the same letter (yeah, by snail mail, and tell Chase you are doing it) to your local and national banking regulators. I cannot believe you will get zero response.

What exactly is a "personal travel credit card"? I never heard that term before.