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Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

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Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#251

Post by sokz »

ninepoints wrote: post #197
ChocolateGod wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to see Swift adopted more on non-Apple operating systems, some of the recent GTK apps written in Swift are pretty cool.

I'd really rather not, personally. All my Swift experiences have been fighting the abysmal compilation times.

Pardon me for not getting your context, but are compile times a big issue in software development? I have never programmed professionally and all my experiences with code is from a couple of classes taken in college a decade ago.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#252

Post by ttepasse »

zackbrown wrote: post #242
selfmodruntime wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. There has never been a better markup language. HTML allows precise control of atomic elements that make up a component. It has been the best thing for accessibility we ever came up with.

It sounds like we agree about the good parts of HTML. > There has never been a better markup language. > It has been the best thing for accessibility we ever came up with. I observe past tense in both sentences above. So perhaps we agree, the salient question is: is it the best thing we can come up with? With a focus on the future. I argue we can do better, while celebrating and building off of what's great about the…

Oh, yet another ActiveX.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#253

Post by zackbrown »

ttepasse wrote: post #252
zackbrown wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like we agree about the good parts of HTML. > There has never been a better markup language. > It has been the best thing for accessibility we ever came up with. I observe past tense in both sentences above. So perhaps we agree, the salient question is: is it the best thing we can come up with? With a focus on the future. I argue we can do better, while celebrating and building off of what's great about the…

Oh, yet another ActiveX.

Closer to "yet another Flash," but 100% open source, and no browser plugin thanks to WebAssembly

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#255

Post by franga2000 »

sokz wrote: post #251
ninepoints wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd really rather not, personally. All my Swift experiences have been fighting the abysmal compilation times.

Pardon me for not getting your context, but are compile times a big issue in software development? I have never programmed professionally and all my experiences with code is from a couple of classes taken in college a decade ago.

When doing UI things, a common workflow is to have code and the app side-by-side, make a small tweak in the code, recompile/hot-reload, look at he result, repeat. A long compile time makes workflow a pain.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#256

Post by atoav »

zackbrown wrote: post #227
ksec wrote: post #5

So we will, in ~5 years time have two new browser, one in Rust and one in Swift. I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things.

> I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things. HTML & CSS themselves have become a major bottleneck to quality and creativity. The arcane layout model, the baggage of backwards compatibility, the cognitive dissonance — played out over decades of design-by-committee — between "this is a document engine" and "this is an app engine." The rendering-thread-is-the-main-thread architecture of JS…

Care to point us to a better combination than HTML/CSS when it comes to layouting flexible interfaces?

Don't get me wrong, I also could imagine better markup languages for that purpose. But everything I have seen in the wild was worse in multiple, show-stopping ways.

Maybe instead of coming up with a new thing, we just need a clear way to solve the pain points and put the solutions into CSS4 and HTML6

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#257

Post by lewisflude »

revskill wrote: post #26
ape4 wrote: post #19

Typo dont' -> don't

Actually i prefer the dont', easy to comprehend and spell.

Genuinely interested, if the ' represents skipped letters, how does this read to you?

As an aside, if you have the sentence "This is Lewis' reply to the parent comment" the ' at the end of Lewis is used to avoid Lewis's with the extra s at the end.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#258

Post by kaladin_1 »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #212
worik wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > First off, Swift has both memory & data race safety (as of v6) > But v6 is not released yet, right As of Swift 5 there is zero data race protection and the process model (DispatchQueues if memory serves) is woefully. No advantage over fork and much more convoluted I am well clear of the Apple development world now (thank goodness) but the tools were of very poor quality, albeit very nice looking, as of this time…

Xcode 16 rewrote much of the autocomplete behaviors and the new engine is blazing fast in terms of UI blockage compared with 15, and stable. Everything to do with tagging etc not just completion itself.

I don't know if this is irony or you've been in Apple ecosystem way too long.

I had to do a very simple macOS app for my personal consumption recently and XCode dx is nothing to write home about. The only reason I finished the project there was that I couldn't set up vs code quickly for Swift/Cocoa project. I had to endure the slow compilation time, slow reaction time of the IDE UI. You make a change you keep seeing squiggly lines for a while, it's as though the UI is booting up each time. It was a horrible experience coming from IntelliJ and VS Code daily experience.

Computer is 32Gb Apple M1 Pro. Imagine what will happen on some 8Gb i5 macbook.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#259

Post by madeofpalk »

zackbrown wrote: post #227
ksec wrote: post #5

So we will, in ~5 years time have two new browser, one in Rust and one in Swift. I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things.

> I hope in the process of doing it we will find new ways of doing things. HTML & CSS themselves have become a major bottleneck to quality and creativity. The arcane layout model, the baggage of backwards compatibility, the cognitive dissonance — played out over decades of design-by-committee — between "this is a document engine" and "this is an app engine." The rendering-thread-is-the-main-thread architecture of JS…

HTML and CSS is the worst layout system except all others.

But actually, HTML and CSS is pretty good considering the problems is solves.

Re: Verso – Web browser built on top of the Servo web engine

#260

Post by jamil7 »

franga2000 wrote: post #255
sokz wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon me for not getting your context, but are compile times a big issue in software development? I have never programmed professionally and all my experiences with code is from a couple of classes taken in college a decade ago.

When doing UI things, a common workflow is to have code and the app side-by-side, make a small tweak in the code, recompile/hot-reload, look at he result, repeat. A long compile time makes workflow a pain.

It's not as good as Flutter/RN hot reload but SwiftUI previews do make this a lot better.
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