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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#251

Post by Barrin92 »

the_snooze wrote: post #220
Filligree wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. > I am no fan of religion having grown up in an exceedingly religious environment. But it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on. It is a problem, but…

>How do you square that with any sort of culture that values reality? Empiricism doesn't help you with the questions of "who are my people?" or "what matters?" You can make a legitimate case for some of religion's claims being empirically unsound, it doesn't take away from the fact that religion is very effective at giving a lot of people meaning and community, orthogonal to those specific claims.

It's arguably only effective if you genuinely believe the truth claims of the faith. There is this sort of strange very online revival of "trad" beliefs but you can literally tell that the people are trying to gaslight themselves into believing something they don't. Sort of a split-brain religion at best.

Nietzsche's aphorism about God being dead was correct, as was his prediction about the future. Religion wouldn't immediately die out but it would take increasingly pathological forms, it's arguably why religion has taken such a political turn as the capital 'f' Faith portion is just gone.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#252

Post by kredd »

hu3 wrote: post #226
kredd wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tight knit irreligious communities always existed. I grew up in one, nobody in my family is/was religious, yet people still were close. I think the top comment nails down the root cause — rampant individualism is rewarded from an economical and financial stand point, so people avoid making sacrifices for others. If you check out very religious societies (other than closed down sects), they have a significant decline…

> But actively asserting ideas and beliefs that don’t hold ground in the modern days... You realize that's an opinion right? Not a fact. Such a broad and loaded generalization too. Religion might not have a place in modern society >to you Not to mention that, just because non-religious groups are also able to become close and social, it doesn't mean that religion doesn't help here too. So there is a flaw in this logi…

Fair, you're right, apologies, I just have a knee-jerk reaction to any commentary that suggests religious indoctrination of children. But again, I still think parts of religious traditions are amazing (like bringing the community together, having pre-set activities, celebrating things together and etc.). The "ideas and beliefs" that I'm against is just the usual paranormal stories that are being push as the objective truth.

If someone can extract out the core good things out of the religions (being nice to the neighbour, helping others, decency and etc.) and apply it to the modern world, I will be all for that. And that's kind of what my parents taught me from day 1 as well. Or taking specific activities, how my Jewish friends do, like hosting Friday night Shabbat dinners to bring your friends and family together. The problem is, it's very hard to implement in a larger scale, as you can't push people one way or another through fear (whether it's fear of God, or going to hell, or bad karma).

I obviously have no real solution to it, but just wanted to explain my thought process.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#253

Post by autoexecbat »

lawlessone wrote: post #241
StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

They probably have some internal churn targets to hit, else people will start to figure out that the app isn't worth their time and try a different one

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#254

Post by hnpolicestate »

Second comment. Sorry if excessive but it's relevant. I'm a computer teacher for elementary and intermediate school grades. You know what drives kids absolutely insane and agitated? The schools IT guy turning their laptops and Mac desktops into locked down consumption devices.

The kids aren't even permitted to change their wallpaper. Those in tech with authority need to loosen up on control of systems, hardware and services if they want kids to be less agitated.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#255

Post by bilater »

My controversial take on this is that we are in the mid-curve of this tech, i.e., smartphones/social media are not quite there to replace IRL experiences and are even further off from real community...BUT instead of going back, we need to move forward to the right side of the curve where full VR / network states can solve a lot of these problems.

I'm very bullish on IRL experiences. Community building is more complex, with various ripple effects to consider, but realistically we are heading in that direction whether we like it or not. I find it more compelling to explore how we can reclaim and enhance these lost aspects in our modern world rather than going on "back in my day" nostalgia trips.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#256

Post by krapp »

2snakes wrote: post #230
Filligree wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mad rush to as quickly abolish religious practices in mainstream U.S. culture without any form of societal replacement is puzzling to me. > I am no fan of religion having grown up in an exceedingly religious environment. But it was always completely obvious to me even as a child that the primary purpose of religion was to form local communities and have others with shared values to rely on. It is a problem, but…

There are certain elements that are not true. But other ones are true. There are many ways to alleviate suffering.

God is not true, at least not the sense that any religion claims (God as an abstraction and a meme is as real as any other, as real as Harry Potter or Slenderman) Claims of absolute moral right or authority derived from divine right are not true. Claims made by the religious that belief in God is a prerequisite to morality, community or cultural identity are not true. Claims made by religious teachings about the nature of the universe are not true.

So what does that leave? Philosophy, ethics and cultural mythology? Why do we need to keep religion around for any of that, any more than we need alchemy when we now have chemistry?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#257

Post by fn-mote »

vegadw wrote: post #165
kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

What frustrates me is that, it seems (Read as: the following is just my vibe) that the majority of 3rd places left are religious in nature, but I, personally, don't want to be religious or raise children that are. There are some options, of course, but they're limited and often of poor quality, at least locally. Libraries are trying to adapt to fill this gap, and maker spaces spring up but most don't have funding to…

I hear you, but it sounds like you’re saying you want program that delivers high value without paying for it.

The way to make this happen is get out there and volunteer your big dollar software engineer time to make it happen. Use all of the knowledge about how to get things done that you get from reading HN, join a team, and start building.

My volunteering experience has been amazing, but there were some negative experiences where it was clear we should have required more buy-in or up front investment.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#258

Post by jprete »

autoexecbat wrote: post #253
lawlessone wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

They probably have some internal churn targets to hit, else people will start to figure out that the app isn't worth their time and try a different one

That's both a horrible thought and a near-certainty.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#259

Post by dv_dt »

StopTheWorld wrote: post #145
kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

Hasn't the divorce rate also gone down. So one question is if the method of meeting is improving that rate

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#260

Post by notspace »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

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