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Robot dentist performs first human procedure

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Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#251

Post by throwaway2037 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #153
whimsicalism wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is less political capture of this process in the UK.

My company/team is an unusual exception. The UK has a much bigger problem with creating tech than the US does. That's why almost all NHS trusts in the UK use US-created EHR systems: Cerner and Epic, mostly. The UK is bad at creating a pro-business/pro-investment environment, so we have to buy in stuff from elsewhere, even though it's not well-suited to our needs. Or best case we find US-based investment for our compa…

    > The UK is bad at creating a pro-business/pro-investment environment
Are there any country's medical system, except the US, that are good at this?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#252

Post by flossmaster »

77pt77 wrote: post #231
supportengineer wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you avoid sugar and floss religiously, and have a decent calcium intake, that takes care of most of the potential problems.

Not true. Mouth pH and mouth biome make all the difference. Also spacing between teeth. I used to be friends with someone that ate bags of gummy bears a day. Never flossed, brushed a couple of times a week. Zero cavities well into his 30s, maybe longer.

Gummy bears are delicious.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#253

Post by throwaway2037 »

rscho wrote: post #81
torginus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has 26.1 doctors per capita, while Germany has 42.5, which is a middle-of-the-road number for the developed West. Do you accept the criticism that the US simply artificially limits the supply of doctors, which leads to overwork for physicians, and worse health outcomes for patients? Do you think most doctors would take less hours for a somewhat lower salary if you it was possible?

All countries control rather strictly who can practice medicine. Yes, there is some amount of protectionism, but that happens almost everywhere. The reason is not only money, but also cultural issues. So yes, I expect that to be a valid criticism, but I don't think opening the floodgates would have the result you expect either. Access to care is a complex problem, and IMO not primarily limited by doc counts in the US…

    > cultural issues
Can you explain this part a bit more? Can you provide some concrete examples?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#254

Post by throwaway2037 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #92
torginus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has 26.1 doctors per capita, while Germany has 42.5, which is a middle-of-the-road number for the developed West. Do you accept the criticism that the US simply artificially limits the supply of doctors, which leads to overwork for physicians, and worse health outcomes for patients? Do you think most doctors would take less hours for a somewhat lower salary if you it was possible?

The comparisons between countries is hard because roles, processes and existence of other practitioners will vary a ton. High doctor-per-capita could be a sign of inefficient use of resources rather than being a good thing. Examples: Do you need a prescription for stuff that's otherwise over-the-counter elsewhere? Is over-the-counter stuff paid by (state) insurance if you get a prescription for people that don't valu…

    > Do people go to the doctor anyway for every possible matter (e.g. cough/cold/flu in otherwise healthy people)?
I lived in Hong Kong for many years and observed this habit amongst local staff with private insurance. (If they did not have private insurance, I highly doubt this behaviour would persist.) It was bizarre. And the "doctor" would happily prescribe medicines for a common cold!

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#255

Post by umbra07 »

matwood wrote: post #186
avgDev wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what is your job? I will be honest, I've had better luck with google than most doctors. I've had doctors say things which were completely incorrect. I've had doctors prescribe unnecessary and not advised meds for what they diagnosed me with(incorrectly). I have friends who are pharmacists and they agree with my opinion, and they interact with doctors daily.

Doctors are people doing a job just like anyone else. The old joke, 'what do you call someone who graduated last in their med school class? Doctor.' Just like software, there are good ones, bad ones, and average ones. By definition, most are average. I know a few surgeons who are nerds about surgery like many on HN are about technology. But they are also the first ones to tell you not all doctors are the same.

Sure, and that ignores just how hard it is to get into medical school and go through residency

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#256

Post by throwaway2037 »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #126
torginus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has 26.1 doctors per capita, while Germany has 42.5, which is a middle-of-the-road number for the developed West. Do you accept the criticism that the US simply artificially limits the supply of doctors, which leads to overwork for physicians, and worse health outcomes for patients? Do you think most doctors would take less hours for a somewhat lower salary if you it was possible?

US supply is artificially limited. There's literally no arguing this. There are essentially a fixed number of residency spots and that's basically the only way to become a physician. > Do you think most doctors would take less hours for a somewhat lower salary if you it was possible? It is possible. Lots of doctors work fractionally. It's one of the easiest fields to do it in. Given the artificial shortage, hospitals…

    > US supply is artificially limited. There's literally no arguing this. There are essentially a fixed number of residency spots and that's basically the only way to become a physician.
Isn't this true in all highly developed countries?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#257

Post by throwaway2037 »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #115
whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

Physician salaries are less than 10% the cost of healthcare. You could eliminate their salary entirely and it'd have no meaningful difference on the cost of healthcare. There is _absolutely_ an artificial supply limitation, but that's increasingly being worked around by the use of PA and NP providers. Doctors essentially become managers for PA and NPs. My wife is a physician. Actual, scientific diagnosis is a ridicul…

Where is the other 90% spent?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#258

Post by throwaway2037 »

HanClinto wrote: post #90
whimsicalism wrote: post #4

It’s going to become increasingly apparent in the US over time the degree to which doctors & the regulatory state are blocking us from getting cheap new care. Already ML algos are more accurate at diagnosing melanomas from an image than dermatologists - but we will never get that tech because doctors are fiercely protective of their salaries and have captured the arm of the state to help them do so.

For another example of this, see the tooth decay vaccine (that is currently only available in Honduras): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39819248

Honduras medical care? Scary! Why did they choose Honduras?

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#259

Post by tsimionescu »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #93
analyte123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doctors don't seem to be driving the majority of the costs. After adjusting for inflation, doctors don't make much more than they did in 1984, yet the percentage of GDP spent on healthcare has almost doubled since then (and the real GDP has also doubled in that time). For example, see [1] where a general surgeon made an average of $118,689 in 1984 and a family practitioner $84,256. This would be $358k and $254k in 20…

Thanks for the datapoint about physician inflation adjusted salaries, but I said ‘hospitals and doctors are driving the majority of the costs’. In 2023, hospitals and physician and clinical services made up just over half of costs: https://www.ama-assn.org/about/research/trends-health-care-s... Nursing care added another 4.3%, and other personal health care expenditures (dental, medical equipment, and other professio…

If doctors are not a major part of the cost, then saying "hospitals and doctors are a major part of the problem", while technically true, is disingenuous. It's like saying "Stalin and and his cat killed more than twenty million people" - technically true, but it assigns the cat an unwarranted part in this problem.

Re: Robot dentist performs first human procedure

#260

Post by tobylane »

drewchew wrote: post #80

Will robot dentists facilitate the option to lay face down for procedures so that the debris and saliva falls out instead of needing the suction tool?

The suction tool is used to dry the area out and make it easier to see and work. A robot could be taught to see through water, but it still needs a dry environment for some work.
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