Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest • Hacker News Board

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#251

Post by codelikeawolf » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 12:38 PM UTC

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #243

steveBK123 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To summarize the idea in a work concept for those who won't read through - East Coast "kind" would be to tell the person working for you about their performance issues early, in a constructive feedback manner such that they could course correct or find a role they are better suited for. The hope is they either improve in the role, find a new role internally, or decide to move on before having to stomach a firing. Wes…

I am from Florida, where there is a lot of southern hosptiality and east coast “kind”. We tend to be a bit more aggressive in our language and openly expressive but it tends to come from one of empathy and support. We tend to understand and communicate well, small talk is easy and normalized. People also will greet you even if you are a stranger, its really nice Going to the west coast - it is weird. People arent gen…

I think you nailed it. However, as someone that grew up in the midwest, then spent 5 years living on the west coast, I would say that lumping the midwest in with the west coast for this statement is wildly inaccurate:

> I do feel people on the west coast and midwest arent really used to community collaboration either near as much as the east coast either. Also they are not used to openly expressing themselves...

If you spend some time in Chicago, I think you would find that it isn't much different from the east coast, based on your description. I can assure you that we have no issues openly expressing ourselves :)

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#252

Post by WarOnPrivacy » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 1:31 PM UTC

NotMichaelBay wrote: post #249

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ever since that back and forth about "East Coast being kind vs West Coast being nice" thing a while back Missed the thing but what a front-loaded mess. What we want to say is Nice sucks, be kind. The rest feels unhelpful. Kinder to state the principle and let folks chew on it.

I agree with you but your delivery could have been... kinder.

You aren't wrong. The one-liner serves to isolate the goal from negative associations.

But my delivery came with it's own neg assoc (against whoever came up with the E/W coast theory).

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#253

Post by BurningFrog » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

passwordle wrote: post #231

BurningFrog wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest problem with government organizations is that they're monopolies. The lack of competition means that (1) if the organization is dysfunctional, it won't be beaten by a better one, and (2) it has little incentive to improve.

>if the organization is dysfunctional, it won't be beaten by a better one, and (2) it has little incentive to improve. Source? Ever heard of elections? Sounds like a braindead libertarian software developer take on a topic you have no idea about to me

Elections can replace a government.

They can't control each of the individual organizations within it.

If the Pest Control Section of the Department of Agriculture has a badly run subsection, the single vote of each voter can't independently influence it and the thousands of other organizations within the state.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#254

Post by tpmoney » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

contrarian1234 wrote: post #244

tpmoney wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the middle ground is when one needs to be "unkind" in words, they should be "kind" in action. I worked on a team that had been moved to a project, in part because that project was behind schedule, haphazard and under-staffed. In our first months we were often (and to my dismay) unkind in words without kind actions to follow through. All of our critiques were correct. All of them were important and needed…

I honestly it's just a "people skill" that's on the individual level. I just think it's in the devilery and it takes practice. I'm not really sure structural organizational changes can fix it - though maybe they can help a bit In my own experience it's possible to tell people anything as long as you're friendly and strike the right tone. The key is to not get worked up or emotional. Even something extreme like tellin…

I agree it's a "people skill", but I think phrasing it that way has two road blocks. The first is that the self-help industry of "people skill" books and their "phone tag" translations through the media and general population has turned "people skill" into a word that I think to a lot of people sounds like manipulation or dishonesty. There's a friendly way to tell people anything, the key is getting people to understand that "friendly bad news" isn't manipulative in and of itself. In my opinion, it's being more realistic than any "just telling it like it is" approach can be.

The second is that "people skill" covers a lot of things, where "be kind when communicating" is still broad, but a more actionable instruction. For "low EQ" (and I include myself in that category) people, it's those actionable things that really matter.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#255

Post by swaggyBoatswain » Mon, Jun 17, 2024, 9:27 PM UTC

codelikeawolf wrote: post #251

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am from Florida, where there is a lot of southern hosptiality and east coast “kind”. We tend to be a bit more aggressive in our language and openly expressive but it tends to come from one of empathy and support. We tend to understand and communicate well, small talk is easy and normalized. People also will greet you even if you are a stranger, its really nice Going to the west coast - it is weird. People arent gen…

I think you nailed it. However, as someone that grew up in the midwest, then spent 5 years living on the west coast, I would say that lumping the midwest in with the west coast for this statement is wildly inaccurate: > I do feel people on the west coast and midwest arent really used to community collaboration either near as much as the east coast either. Also they are not used to openly expressing themselves... If y…

I have been to Chicago as well! I will say though Chicago is a bit of an outlier though - it is technically the midwest but its also not entirely culturally the midwest either

People are definitely community oriented there - theres alot of polish community events, open friendliness towards sports outings and open pickups (basketball volleyball etc)

I will say though I think in Chicago it tends to be a bit more like clique-y though - culturally and sportswise comparitvely to something like NYC.

Like in NYC theres alot more international / individualism though, in Chicago the city itself enforces a good number of rules on what you should and shouldnt be (example is the pride colors painted in boys town)

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#256

Post by lemmsjid » Tue, Jun 18, 2024, 3:55 AM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #233

lemmsjid wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh! If I reflect back on my involvement in projects that had difficulties, there was rarely a dearth of competent people, and in fact it was often political and communication concerns that led to suffering. Look at Conway’s Law: “any organization that designs a system (defined broadly) will produce a design whose structure is a copy of the organization's communication structure.” The “kind” people are the people who…

> not be impeded by political wrangling All that need for political wrangling was created by incompetent kind people. Getting more of those just creates more of those issues, if not at your place its at others, its an arms race.

Personally, I find a team seems to be healthiest if a mixture of personalities are on it. They should all be competent.

When it comes to incompetence, people can hide that behind kindness, or behind bluster and bullying. Both are certainly unhealthy. I wouldn’t say one leads to issues over the other.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#257

Post by mirekrusin » Tue, Jun 18, 2024, 7:01 AM UTC

erikerikson wrote: post #186

mirekrusin wrote: post #13

Being too kind can also be negative, I prefer honesty and reality above the rest.

This seems to misunderstand kind Kindness reduces barriers to accepting the honest truth and is thus part of maximizing honesty and realism.

...now let's call person who understands it all a smart person. Now it's all clear – being smart is the best.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#258

Post by codelikeawolf » Tue, Jun 18, 2024, 12:58 PM UTC

swaggyBoatswain wrote: post #255

codelikeawolf wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you nailed it. However, as someone that grew up in the midwest, then spent 5 years living on the west coast, I would say that lumping the midwest in with the west coast for this statement is wildly inaccurate: > I do feel people on the west coast and midwest arent really used to community collaboration either near as much as the east coast either. Also they are not used to openly expressing themselves... If y…

I have been to Chicago as well! I will say though Chicago is a bit of an outlier though - it is technically the midwest but its also not entirely culturally the midwest either People are definitely community oriented there - theres alot of polish community events, open friendliness towards sports outings and open pickups (basketball volleyball etc) I will say though I think in Chicago it tends to be a bit more like c…

That's totally fair. There are large parts of the Midwest that I haven't spent enough time in to making sweeping generalizations. I've only driven through the states west of Illinois. I also haven't spent much time on the east coast, but most of the people I have worked with over the past 4 years live there. I felt comfortable around my east coast colleagues immediately versus feeling that "weird" you described in your original comment when I lived on the west coast.

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#259

Post by demondemidi » Tue, Jun 18, 2024, 1:12 PM UTC

mgaunard wrote: post #248

demondemidi wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I will. And I upvoted you because I think it is HN duty to help you out, and not bury you. If someone is fucking up, they are in the wrong position. People need to work for a living, and shouldn't be under duress constantly. It is up to them and their manager to find a position that is rewarding and engaging for them. If they don't care, they are also in the wrong position. It is no reason to not treat them with…

Why would you invest time and effort in solving someone else's problems? As a manager your responsibilities are to the shareholders. A business is not a charity.

Because we are all humans doing our best and we are forced to work our lives away by an elite ruling class.

(I don’t know you but you sound like every white male teenager who discovers Ayn Rand.)

Re: Do not try to be the smartest in the room; try to be the kindest

#260

Post by mgaunard » Wed, Jun 19, 2024, 1:44 PM UTC

demondemidi wrote: post #259

mgaunard wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you invest time and effort in solving someone else's problems? As a manager your responsibilities are to the shareholders. A business is not a charity.

Because we are all humans doing our best and we are forced to work our lives away by an elite ruling class. (I don’t know you but you sound like every white male teenager who discovers Ayn Rand.)

That sounds like a borderline insult, but I'm not familiar with American literature so I can't really feel targeted by it.

If you're a leader with a strategic role, time is your most important and limited resource. You just cannot afford to spend time on something that doesn't further the goals of the business, even if you're a hippie or a communist.