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Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

haaretz.com

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Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#251

Post by Retric »

1shooner wrote: post #170
Retric wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how this much power over the US was ever deemed acceptable? Free speech sometimes applies to things you don’t like. There’s pro and anti propaganda for just about any foreign interest. Some of it’s just more subtle such as recommendations on TikTok. Ukraine had really obvious pro Ukraine requests for military aid and images of destruction, but quite a bit of pro Russia propaganda was more subtle…

Speaking of free speech, can you name another foreign interest that has managed to make it illegal in the US to boycott it's companies?

“Texas enacted a law in May 2017 prohibiting state agencies from signing contracts with companies that boycott Israel.”

I’m not particularly happy about that law or similar ones in other states, but what you said is inaccurate.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#252

Post by jedimind »

pvg wrote: post #218
nerdjon wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't prove that these are somehow connected to funding from Israel, but it seemed like these billboards were ready to go at a moment's notice. Right, that is what we got in Boston. The timing is just too convenient. Whether or not it is from Israel themselves or funding here for Israel is kinda a moot point when both have the same purpose: Propaganda for a foreign government.

Whether or not it is from Israel themselves or funding here for Israel is kinda a moot point It's not at all a moot point and you're coming pretty close to a generic 'dual loyalties' trope.

If there is overwhelming evidence for a claim, it's absurd to smear it as "trope". So when Nancy Pelosi says: "If the capital crumbles to the ground,one thing that will remain is our commitment to Israel"[0] that's because she has in fact dual loyalty, to dismiss that as "trope" is to dismiss & deny reality.

Some of "our" politicians work overtime for israel's interests and neglect their actual job and obligations towards America.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53x_zrkJwDs

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#253

Post by nerdjon »

leoh wrote: post #245
nerdjon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to shut down a conversation with "Antisemitism" does not help your case. Being critical of their actions does not equal antisemitism. I fully understand why they are doing what they are doing, they would be stupid not too. That doesn't mean its ok and we should accept it. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/17/pro-israel-m...

[flagged]

No I am not, I am still engaging in the conversation.

But there is very little I can actually say when your response is that it is anti-semitic.

You are no longer responding to what was actually said and instead pivoting it to something else that does not leave anything to respond too since you are not addressing what you are responding too in the first place.

And again you are doing the same thing here, instead of actually trying to have a conversation you shut it down by claiming it is antisemitic. That isn't a conversation, that is a pivot to try to end it.

I also never claimed it did not exist.

Over the last several months I have seen many conversations just end with "that's anti-semitic" because it was any amount of criticism as if we have to accept that and that's the end of the conversation.

Well it's not and shouldn't be, you made a claim and I am challenging it.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#254

Post by recursivedoubts »

imzadi wrote: post #104
lprd wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve often pondered the same. Seems like Israel gets a lot of special treatment from the US.

Because anti-Semitism is used to derail any conversation about Israel. If you criticize Israel, you're accused of being an anti-Semite, and actual anti-Semites flood the conversation with actual anti-Semitism that immediately shuts everything down.

if i were a government and any conversation that criticized me could be shut down by calling it something I would pay people to do that something

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#255

Post by digging »

The_Colonel wrote: post #121
laweijfmvo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I've learned about old people (and in the US, the people in charge are _OLD_) is that they have no concept of being scammed like this. So they may recognize trolling, but if you tell them "Hey, the President of Israel tweeted at you," they just assume it was the President of Israel.

So the logic is something like this: * my grandmother can't recognize fake information * my grandmother is old * politicians are old * therefore politicians can't recognize fake information Politics has always been full of deception, people doing politics professionally for decades should know a bit or two about it.

> Politics has always been full of deception, people doing politics professionally for decades should know a bit or two about it.

I think it's worth pushing back on this. Deception works when it's unexpected, and if the medium is something politicians aren't familiar with, they may not even be looking for the kinds of deception they're being targeted with. They think themselves hardened to deception, but they may not be open-minded enough to even realize there are forms of deception they haven't prepared for.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#256

Post by segasaturn »

nerdjon wrote: post #135
cempaka wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best part is when it comes from our own "newspaper of record" i.e. with the extraordinarily dubious "mass rape" article the NYT published. They finally dismissed the one Israel-connected reporter who had liked tweets calling for a brutal response against Gaza, but that of course has seen about one billionth the attention that her original claims continue to receive. You also get stuff like the POTUS repeating lie…

I have struggled to even look at my News app anymore. Next to articles about the protests or other things, there are the articles about the hostages or something else that just feels like a propaganda piece aimed at one thing. And that is just the headlines.

The wiki article on Media Coverage of the Iraq War[0] is an enlightening read. Most of the same tactics for manufacturing consent that the mainstream media used during the Iraq War are still being used in today's conflicts.

> An investigation by the New York Times discovered that top Pentagon officials met with news analysts where they gave the analysts 'special information' and then tried to convince them to speak favorably about the Iraq war. The discovery was based on 8000 pages of secret information that had been revealed to The New York Times through a lawsuit under the Freedom of Information Act. The article states that top Pentagon officials would invite news analysts to secret meetings, and urge the analysts to speak positively of the war. Often, the US would give "classified information," trips, and contracts to the news analysts.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_coverage_of_the_Iraq_War

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#257

Post by WhackyIdeas »

ngruhn wrote: post #204
WhackyIdeas wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right about there being other genocides. But the difference here is that for many in the West, they are seeing their own participation in it (ie USA, UK) with the Germans giving morale support for it. All those American Boeing-made missiles ripping apart and burning alive those little hungry toddlers camping outside in their cold tents… it tends to make people reflect a little more.

I have a different theory. There are tons of wars and conflicts in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia vs Yemen, Iran vs Irak, Pakistan vs India, civil war in Syria, civil war in Somalia, civil war in Sudan, and everybody else is fighting ISIS. It’s not like the US/West are not involved or that the conflicts are any less bloody or that the parties have "better reasons" to kill each other. And still, they receive no where n…

Israel has created its own perception of itself to the world. They gave up all sense of humanity to go on a revenge spree and now they don’t know when to stop because the whole world sees them as monsters so they probably think it couldn’t get any worse.

Changing the convo to talk about some other wars than Israel / Gaza is just another kind of deflection technique to avoid responsibility.

If it isn’t the antisemitism card, it’s the deflection card.

Sorry, but most of us know it’s true.

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#258

Post by [deleted] »

jedimind wrote: post #252
pvg wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether or not it is from Israel themselves or funding here for Israel is kinda a moot point It's not at all a moot point and you're coming pretty close to a generic 'dual loyalties' trope.

If there is overwhelming evidence for a claim, it's absurd to smear it as "trope". So when Nancy Pelosi says: "If the capital crumbles to the ground,one thing that will remain is our commitment to Israel"[0] that's because she has in fact dual loyalty, to dismiss that as "trope" is to dismiss & deny reality. Some of "our" politicians work overtime for israel's interests and neglect their actual job and obligations to…

[deleted]

Re: Israel reportedly used fake social accounts to garner support from US lawmakers

#259

Post by CommanderData »

cjk2 wrote: post #70

Well their enemies used social accounts to garner support from US citizens so you've got to start somewhere! It's not like we haven't done this either. I worked for a company in 2005 which was doing this paid for by politicians. Moment I worked this out, I quit.

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